Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[CaptainCrunch]

For the most part, the Hart family tried to get back together, Bret really pushed for that after his stroke, with some it worked and with some it didn't.


Vince hit the sweet spot with some of them, Diana (not the most stable girl in the world), Ellie, and some of the others, and Bruce and his wife at the time, saw this as an opportunity to get back into or into the WWE. For all of its time as Stampede Wrestling, they weren't financially stable. Smith at the time was just insane. Bret and Keith came out on Owen and Martha's side of that, and worked hard with her and her legal team.



Both sides did some really unsavery things. The WWE and the document stealing by the Harts. Martha's legal team promising splits of any compensation to each family member to testify on her side.


The whole thing was pretty unsavory.

[Julio]

As much as it was tough to watch that episode, this bonus scene made me smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AJcqdg1P7o

[Jiri Hrdina]

I couldn’t even finish watching it
Like many of us I was a huge fan of Owen Hart, watching him growing up on Stampede.
The utter senseless of his death is something I just can’t handle
I watched about 20 minutes and realized it is not something I wish to relive at all. Couldn’t do it

[Scorch]

[Freeway]

Kimura was the centerpiece for New Japan's planned expansion of STARDOM in 2020/21. She was given a match on their Tokyo Dome show and everything.

[CaptainCrunch]

That's tremendously sad, I was following the story last night. The dark side of the web is it enables people to anonymously bully and act like aholes. It'd be nice if they could be prosecuted or exposed.


Its a pretty tragic loss, not because she was a wrestler, but because it shouldn't have happened.

[CMPunk]

Stadium Stampede was MOTY for me. This is what Money in the Bank should have been.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't know what the hell money in the bank was this year, but it certainly wasn't money in the bank.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

Stadium Stampede was MOTY for me. This is what Money in the Bank should have been.

So many outstanding spots

Judas effect on the jags mascot and hangman trying to run down sammy with a horse were incredible tho

[Muta]

Such sad news about Kimura. I saw her at the Stardom show in Tokyo the night before Wrestle Kingdom, then got to see her wrestle at WK in front of 50,000 fans for the first time too the next night. She was super talented. Very sad day in the wrestling world.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1264255941739810816


Cena is a pretty stand up guy so I believe it was him.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

Stadium Stampede was MOTY for me. This is what Money in the Bank should have been.

Agreed, WWE had a great idea for Money in the Bank but in the end it was just okay. I think having both the men and women’s at the same time really hurt it, and it all felt really rushed.

Stadium Stampede was great, they took their time, and really gave the spots time to breath and gave everyone their moment.

Sammy Guevara is a treasure and the best chicken #### heel in wrestling in a while. The Eddie comparisons are fair IMO.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm just having a lot of trouble with what I'm going to call North American Wrestling. It feels lost.


With WWE I don't even know what's going on any more on the main roster shows. None of the storylines are attracting my attention and the ones that do are attracting it for the outright wrong reason.



The WWE is heading into that weird transition stage where the bigger names that probably could have driven the WWE through the current situation are leaving to pursue other opportunities.



After watching the excellent Undertaker last ride 3 parter, you can't help but feel that by exposing the man behind the deadman like they did and talking about him checking off these boxes that he's done, he doesn't sound all that interested in anymore matches at all. I believe that especially after the poop show that was the last match against Wyatt that Cena is entirely done with the WWE. He's really ramping up his career outside of Wrestling. I don't know what the situation is with Reigns, I get and respect that he's staying away due to his immune issues and Covid, but it feels like WWE is moving past him, maybe because they don't feel like he's dependable of that guy anymore.


The WWE frankly doesn't have main event strength. The guys that they're pushing are pretty much mid carders or upper mid carders. With guys like Brock probably being done as his contract expires. Rollins is just not great, and certainly doesn't bring in the money. The WWE is forcing a steady stream of Braun and Drew (He is a main event guy) and Bray (Killed by awful booking and stupid matches), and with an aging roster and bad storylines its not a good product.



Don't get me started on the Woman's division. I mean I was bored of Becky as the Man, she wasn't interesting, but the fact that we're seeing another mega push coming for the untalented Nia Jax, is bad enough. But they hyped a tag team division that didn't materialize.



It feels like WWE is in full panic mode to find main event players, but I don't think they are there.


I still like NXT, but suddenly it feels like everyone wants to be a heel. I mean there are some great pieces there. Kai is a natural heel (who knew), Balor has done some great work as has UE, but the booking feels stale and bleah.


I haven't been able to get into AEW, they have some great talented pieces, but they're starting to suffer from roster bloat, and the thing is still over booked and at times silly. The sad thing is we kept hearing, wait until Matt Hardy or Brodie Lee gets in there, they were wasted in WWE. But really both have been horrifically bad. Brodie Lee surprises me, because he's just been awful on the mic and worse in the ring.



The whole thing is still overly booked to the point that its almost like its booked this way because its funny for the guys in the back writing it. What makes it worse is the commentary team, who at times almost are acting like they can't believe they're calling this stuff.



I love Jericho, but he should have been a transition veteran, I love Dean but they've pretty much written him to be Stone Cold Jon Moxley.



I get that with both organizations these are weird times with the no audience thing, but the booking on both sides makes me thing that they believe they have hollywood movie chops.



Wrestling should be the simplest thing ever. two athletes have a beef, they threaten each other, go after each other and then fight.



Instead I don't know what we're getting anymore.

[Muta]

Cap, start following NJPW more. It's more about the storytelling in the ring; the focus is on the in-ring product (as it should be).

WWE has lost me; their storylines and crappy empty arena shows aren't doing it for me. Both RAW and Smackdown are incredibly boring. I've lost almost all interest in NXT as, you're right, the booking is a bit stale right now.

AEW, on the other hand, I'm highly enjoying. It's nice to see guys getting pretty much their own creative control. I will admit though that the WWE imports are a bit of a failed experiment. Matt Hardy has been a disappointment (I find his Broken gimmick a bit outdated now) and Brodie Lee as a cult leader just isn't doing it for me. Sammy Guevara, Darby Allin, Kenny Omega, Jurassic Express, and MJF, on the other hand, have been outstanding. MJF is going to be a mega star.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know what the situation is with Reigns, I get and respect that he's staying away due to his immune issues and Covid, but it feels like WWE is moving past him, maybe because they don't feel like he's dependable of that guy anymore.

He and his wife just had twins and he wants to minimize the risk of getting Covid as much as possible. He said his immune system is fine as the drugs he takes to fight his leukemia doesn't attack it.

[Ozy_Flame]

I think the problem with Brodie Lee - in addition to his gimmick and mic talent - is that both he and Archer came in around the same time and they're giving all the hoss love to Archer. Big promo packages, high profile manager, squash matches, and marquee tournament matches. These are the things creating hype for Archer who has outperformed Lee in every way, and it's surprising.

I also think the absence of the tragically underrated Evil Uno and the stable shift from cult to unofficial scientologists has been a big detriment to the character.

Lee should have just come in wearing jeans and undershirt, not say anything, and beat the ever-living piss out of Moxley as a debut. No stable affiliation. In fact, Matt Hardy should have been the Dark Order leader as it was perfect timing to do and and expand his character.

[SuperMatt18]

I will agree with Captain in that while I really liked Stadium Stampede, that AEW hasn't been great recently.

Overbooked, and story telling hasn't been great. Plus some weird booking decisions with tying Hardy to the The Elite and Brodie Lee to the Dark Order.

IMO it still feels a little bit like Cody Rhodes is trying to hard to make AEW feel like WCW from when he was a kid. And limiting some of their singles stars by tying them into bloated factions.

Guys like Hager, Hardy, and Brodie Lee shouldn't have been put right into factions IMO. The needed fresh fueds and characters and by putting these guys into factions right out the gate that just limits your opportunities of how to use them.

What affiliation did Hardy have with the elite? Why is Hager playing second fiddle to Jericho in the Inner Circle? Stuff like that just hurts your roster.

It's the same way WCW started debuting guys by instantly throwing them into one of the NWO's during that era.

Plus it will be interesting to see how long they can actually hold off just booking The Elite on top. They've done an okay job so far, but Cody going over Lance Archer in what was a mostly clean match felt like the first time they really squashed somebody's momentum by feeding them to the Elite.

[Muta]

Yeah I agree with your view on Archer, he should have won that one. He had the most momentum going into the math, being built up as a monster.

I'm also not a fan of Jake Hager. Why is a supposedly brutal, MMA bad-ass with size playing waterboy to smaller comedy-based characters? He's such an awkward and poor fit in the Inner Circle. His golf shirts aren't giving him any credibility either.

[CaptainCrunch]

I liked Jake in WWE at the start when they put him with a solid manager in Dutch Mantell and had a great gimmick with him "We the people". I still think that the one angle that he did when he had an appreciation night that ended up getting wrecked was his best work.


He's frankly a guy that's not a good comedy piece. He should have been booked as an absolute Alpha Dog Killer heel on his own from the start.



Brodie Lee had the same problems in WWE once he started not giving a crap. He's just flat on the mic, and in his matches there's absolutely no desire, no energy, he's paint by numbers. The Brodie Lee on the independents and the Brodie Lee in NXT he was awesome and crazy.


The WWE curse strikes again.


I agree with the assesment that this is WCW style booking, and probably booking on the fly. It feels like they don't have a experienced guy that can step back and look at the big picture of the whole f'n show, and how things interweve and where the logic is.


Instead it feels like the booking meetings are probably "You know what would be cool" or "Man that's hilarious lets do that". Booking like that, and man I loved faction war fare, but booking on the fly or what's cool to the bookers leads to really poor booking decisions, and hot shot angles and things that don't make sense, or things that have no logic to them, and it burns out audiences.


Honestly, AEW really needs to go out and get a Heyman or a Cornette (Don't say Russo, or I'll dive through your screen and punch you in the throat). Or even a guy like Jericho with a serious filter guy to hold his reigns a bit to do it.



Actually and to be honest, Cornette would probably be the best thing in this role because he has no patience or filter when he deals with angles and writing. So they'd have a guy in the board room saying you know what would be awesome. Cornette would blow a gasket and at least ask why in the content of the whole show does this make any fracking sense.

[Ozy_Flame]

I think a good pickup for them would be Ryan Ward if he was available. Former NXT and Smackdown booker, and part of NXT's formative years and Smackdown when it was at its best in 2016 (after the roster split). The product seemed interesting and stable without the crazy turnover of storylines, and focus on character strengths.