"Me Too"

[driveway]

So, this trend is sweeping social media, I'm sure you've seen it, if you haven't please go google it.

My mother just posted it.

Many of the members of this forum are men, so this is what I want to ask us:
What are we doing to prevent sexual harrassment and assault?

What are YOU doing? Are you going to call our your friend the next time they hit on a waitress? What about your buddy at work who makes those kinda funny but-right-on-the-edge jokes? What are you going to change in your own life?

The first thing I can think of that I'm going to change: my friend and I like to go down to where the nightclubs are in Taipei, get some drinks from 7-11 and hang out while we watch the girls go in and out of the clubs. I'm not doing that anymore.

So what else are we going to do?

[PsYcNeT]

I'm sure it comes as no surprise, but I'm the guy who calls people out for being gross about women when drinking with the boys.

I don't get invited out much.

Realtalk: I think the most men can do is just try to step back and understand why this is happening, and how many goddamn women it affects. The amount of #### women put up with on a day-to-day is staggering.

To add to this, don't offer commentary if your wife/mother/daughter/girlfriend/sister tries to discuss it with you. Instead, just seek to have more understanding.

[troutman]

I'm saddened at how many relatives and friends said "me too" this weekend. The following is copied from one of those threads:

In case any men care, here is a great list of 'how to':
Today my timeline is full of decent men asking, "How can I help?" I'm going to take this question as sincere, and give a few suggestions.
In response to those who are asking, yes, you can share this, thanks for being interested in doing so.

Here are some concrete ways men can help:

1. Practice these phrases: "That's not cool" and "That's a ####ty thing to say". Say them to other men who are saying disrespectful things to or about women.

2. Follow some feminist writers on social media. Sometimes what they write may seem "exhausting" or "too angry". Put aside that discomfort because that feeling is your male privilege allowing you to disengage from an important conversation that womxn don't get to disengage from. Here are some accounts I like- but there are lots. Follow a few.
www.twitter.com/ijeomaoluo
www.twitter.com/manwhohasitall
www.twitter.com/FeministaJones

3. Boost female voices. When there's an issue and you're going to share an article about it- especially if it's a gender issue- take a minute and try to find one written by a woman (same goes for other marginalized groups- seek articles about race written by IBPOC, seek articles about disability by disabled writers, etc. "Nothing about us, without us").

4. Boost what women say at work. Listen for men dismissing women's contributions and make a habit of listening and saying things like "Hey Zahra has a point".

5. Be mindful of how you introduce women- particularly at work functions. Role-model extra respect into your introductions. So often you hear men being introduced with job titles and accolades, and women introduced as "the lovely" or "the beautiful". I guarantee that no matter how good she looks, she'd rather be introduced by her job title and accomplishments.

Relevant Washington Post article: "At conferences, male doctors are introduced as "Doctor Whoever" 72% of the time; female doctors are introduced using the word "Doctor" only 49% of the time." http://wapo.st/2kSWlba

Doing this subtly tells the listener that the women's qualifications are lesser-than. Go out of your way to correct this by introducing women (and others from marginalized groups- racialized, disabled, young-looking, whatever) using their full job titles and accolades.

6. At work or out in the world, don't call women cutesy names like "honey, baby, darling, kiddo, young lady, girl, or dear". This is a subtle way of putting them down, elevating your own status over them as a man who is choosing to vote them as attractive, and reminding them and all present that they're just cute little ladies that nobody should listen to. Make a special effort to speak to women using the kind of person-to-person respectful address you use when speaking with male colleagues. Hint: Use their name. If you slip up and call your colleague "young lady" or some other bull#### like that, it's cool to say something about it, like "I'm sorry I called you that- it's disrespectful."

7. Seek enthusiastic consent in your sexual encounters. If you're having sexy time and the other person stops reciprocating, gets quiet, seems tense or stiff, avoids making eye contact, pauses, or otherwise slows the tempo of the encounter, then you should.... STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

Reframe how you think of consent. You're not supposed to just "go for it" until someone yells NO and that's when you stop. That's old-fashioned and gross. And she might not be able to explicitly say no, because she has very likely been assaulted before and she might freeze when stressed- that's a side effect of all this "me too".

People shouldn't have to explicitly say no. Instead, slow down. At every step, listen with your ears (or ask with your words) for the word "yes", and then you can escalate the encounter together. Seek explicit and enthusiastic and active consent before you proceed. Proceed together. And constantly observe the other person's body language for the hesitations that mean "no". If this means you have to cut down on alcohol or substances to stay present and have self-control, please do that.

8. Don't use gendered or misogynist insults. Bitch, ####, slut, #####, f*g, girly, sissy, ####, etc. Use insults that work on everyone rather than insults that specifically target the feminine as weak, lesser, and undesirable. "#######" is a nice multipurpose choice- we all have one.

9. If there are little boys, teen boys, and young men in your life, role-model that the feminine is not less-than. Challenge them on their dismissive ideas around what counts as "girl stuff". Buy them a doll. Paint your nails together. Show up wearing pink. Do something feminine in a way that embraces the feminine as a valid way of being, not in a way that mocks femininity. Buy them books and watch TV and movies that prominently feature female characters. Verbally challenge their stereotypes about what men do and how women are lesser. Seeing women as people starts in infancy.

10. Avoid telling little girls they're pretty and cute or commenting on their hairstyle or clothing. I know, little girls often wear fun stuff and it's easy to comment on. But it tells her, and the little boys nearby, that girls should be valued first and foremost for their looks.

Instead, try things like "What kind of toy is that? That looks fun, what is it? Are you reading any good books? What's your favourite subject in school? What kind of things do you like to do? Do you have a favourite animal? May I ask your advice, should I purchase the apples or the grapes?" There are so many things to talk about.

11. When a woman is walking alone and you end up walking behind her- especially in dark or secluded areas- please slow down to increase the distance between you, or, better yet, cross the street. Literally go out of your way to help her feel that you're not following her.

12. Teach your elders to do better. Pervy Grandpa and Racist Grandma might seem harmless at Xmas dinner but as their health declines, they will largely end up being cared for by women and POC who don't deserve dehumanizing treatment. Call it out. You can teach old dogs new tricks and you should definitely try.

13. Don't argue so much in conversations around types of oppression that you don't personally experience. Keep an eye open for our culture's gross habit of putting the onus on the oppressed persons to dredge up their pain for inspection (only for us to then dismiss it as "just one instance which they probably either caused or misinterpreted anyway"). Instead, try this- if you don't believe something is an issue, use the Googles. Find, say, three articles *written by people in that demographic*, and read them. Look for patterns in their analyses. You'll find that these ideas aren't weird militant fringe notions- oppression is a widely-accepted and statistically-supported phenomenon and a lot of insightful people are talking about it. Avoid the hot takes and go to the source- the people who experience the issue firsthand.

14. If you feel uncomfortable during conversations about sexism (or racism, or ableism, or cultural appropriation, or whatever- because all these systems are related, google "kyriarchy" to learn more), the only correct response is to be quiet and listen and try to focus on the topic at hand rather than centre your own feelings. It's hard. It's worthwhile.

Thanks for trying to be decent men. We see you.

[OMG!WTF!]

One thing that creeps me out is watching guys stare at pretty women. I've always tried to not do that mostly because I don't want to be that creepy, eye molester loser. Maybe I'll point that out to some random staring creepy guy at the gym.

[driveway]

What about your best friend though? Or your dad or brother? Can you point it out to them?

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by driveway

What about your best friend though? Or your dad or brother? Can you point it out to them?

I'm confused... did you just call his best friend, dad or brother a creep and just assumed they do the same thing?

[DiracSpike]

Yea no kidding, especially because apparently up until last week his favourite weekend activity was creeping girls over a slurpee and Cheetos

[GGG]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

I'm confused... did you just call his best friend, dad or brother a creep and just assumed they do the same thing?

I think the point is it's much easier to comment on a strangers behaviour who will tell you to #### off than a friends behaviour who you have to deal with the awkwardness.

The one I focus on and call out is using female terms as insults. Throws like a girl, ##### etc.

I defitmately need to work on my desire to victim blame.

[PepsiFree]

I think it’s pretty clear he’s saying that saying it to strangers is great, but it’s also important to look at those closest to you and ensure you aren’t enabling their behaviour or ignoring it because you love them and you want to see the best in them.

What about you sketch? You Dirac? What are you going to do?

[OMG!WTF!]

I think my friends would maybe make comments rather than just stare because we're probably already engaged in conversation of some kind. The creepy stare I was thinking about is usually done by people who are alone. I doubt most even realize they're doing it. I just see the creepy stare as something that could actually effect the other person and make them uncomfortable. So it's worse in my book. Inappropriate comments are totally unacceptable too but at least they're likely not heard by the other person. I don't think anyone I know is seriously inappropriate in their comments so I guess the anti stare is my campaign. I'd definitely point it out to a buddy if they were staring. I actually do hate that behavior and wouldn't want to be associated with it.

[bizaro86]

I definitely call out colleagues in restaurants downtown. I would suggest the word "talent" isn't appropriate for a waitress when you're using it as a synonym for bust size.

I quite liked the piece Troutman quoted, although I had to make myself keep reading past "womxn." Normally I would stopped there...

[iggy_oi]

Hopefully this campaign raises a lot of awareness to an issue far too many seem content to simply shrug off.

I think it’s important that people don’t lose sight of what the actual issue is though. I don’t think flirting with someone is inappropriate(as long as you haven’t crossed any lines or been asked to stop of course) nor is it what they are trying to address. The issue has more to do with the mentality some people have where to them being asked to stop doesn’t mean they have to stop and their actions based on that mentality.

[Coach]

The word "lovely" is an interesting one to me. I've always considered it a synonym for pleasant or charismatic moreso than beautiful.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MattyC

The word "lovely" is an interesting one to me. I've always considered it a synonym for pleasant or charismatic moreso than beautiful.

If you use the word to describe both sexes it shouldn't be an issue.

Most people I know don't, myself included.

[chedder]

10. Avoid telling little girls they're pretty and cute or commenting on their hairstyle or clothing. I know, little girls often wear fun stuff and it's easy to comment on. But it tells her, and the little boys nearby, that girls should be valued first and foremost for their looks.

This is one area where I fall down. Probably out of habit with my own daughters. It's awfully easy to say, " You look pretty in that outfit/hairstyle honey/sweetheart". They are 10 and 13. Not sure I see what's wrong as I also commend them for academic and athletic pursuits and just for generally being great little people most of the time. I should ask them what they think.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by chedder

I should ask them what they think.

I thanked you for this.


I have found my relationship with my daughter (and my son to be fair) has gotten better if I ask them what they think.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I thanked you for this.


I have found my relationship with my daughter (and my son to be fair) has gotten better if I ask them what they think.

Thanks. We have pretty open communication generally but I will have this discussion specifically.

[WhiteTiger]

One of the things I've been seeing is variations on it already.

"If all the women who have been..." I've also seen as

"If all the women and men who have been..." "If all the men who have been..." "If all the humans (none binary, trans, lbgtq, etc) who have been..."

Not sure what I think about that, honestly. From the basic point of the meme, going with "If all the people who have been..." seems to be the best action. I usually look at stuff like that and think "Well, that's a way to change it to be 'what about me?'...but it does seem like the 'people' one would be better to achieve the desired goal.

[afc wimbledon]

You have teenage boys you drill I into them their job is to look out for everyone around them and that includes girls at the bar that have had a bit more to drink than they should.

Your son should know you think a guy that takes advantage of a girl who's drunk is a complete effing ######bag and that his job is to get her home safe even if he doesn't know her and its a pain in the rear

[driveway]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

One of the things I've been seeing is variations on it already.

"If all the women who have been..." I've also seen as

"If all the women and men who have been..." "If all the men who have been..." "If all the humans (none binary, trans, lbgtq, etc) who have been..."

Not sure what I think about that, honestly. From the basic point of the meme, going with "If all the people who have been..." seems to be the best action. I usually look at stuff like that and think "Well, that's a way to change it to be 'what about me?'...but it does seem like the 'people' one would be better to achieve the desired goal.

I read an article about that which specifically disputed this idea. That adding inclusivity to this particular ... campaign? Was not valuable. That this campaign is specifically about women being harassed by men.

The intention is not to deny, or diminish the experiences of others, or to claim that one is more important than another, but more to maintain the focus of what's being discussed.

The analogy is that one does not run into a breast cancer fundraiser and yell "ALL Cancer matters."

I think I agree with this sentiment, the problem of men, trans people, and non binary people being harassed is serious and deserving of attention and conversation, but that's not this conversation.