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Old 09-01-2017, 01:31 PM   #1
Minnie
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Default Utah Nurse Arrested For "Refusing" Illegal Blood Draw on Patient

Whoops.

Three videos posted. The first is the video in its entirety. The second is a shorter version. The third is footage of the incident that the patient was injured in. This happened last month, footage was only released today.

Here's what I don't understand. The patient (is a truck driver when he is not serving as a reserve police officer in Rigby, Idaho) whose blood they're trying to draw, was just driving along when a suspect that the police were chasing, purposely drove into the semi whereupon there was an explosion. The suspect that police were chasing died on impact. The truck driver was able to get out of his truck, was initially reported as not being in life threatening condition, but at the time of this video, he was unconscious/comatose in the burn unit of this hospital, as he apparently suffered burns when trying to escape his truck.

The nurse wasn't telling them no, but merely reiterating the HOSPITAL'S policy, showing them what admin was telling her. This was also something that the SLCPD had allegedly AGREED TO.

She was only repeating what hospital administration told her, with whom she was on the phone when the cop arrested her. The second cop that speaks to her shouldn't have even talked to her, but should have spoken with the hospital admin - when she speaks with him, she tells him SHE wasn't refusing, only explaining the policy to the original officer, as it was explained to her. They (they being hospital admin) tell her on the phone, which is picked up on the officer's bodycam, that she doesn't represent the hospital, which is the point the police should have asked to speak with hospital admin, not arrested the nurse.








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A nurse alleges she was assaulted and illegally arrested by a Salt Lake City police detective for following a hospital policy that does not allow blood draws from unconscious patients. Footage from University Hospital and officer body cameras shows Detective Jeff Payne insisting to nurse Alex Wubbels that he be allowed to get a blood sample from a patient in the burn unit who had been injured in a July 26 collision in northern Utah that left another driver dead. Wubbels responded that blood cannot be taken from an unconscious patient unless the patient is under arrest, there is a warrant allowing the draw or the patient consents. The detective acknowledges that none of those requirements is in place but insists he has the authority to obtain the draw, according to the footage. At one point, Payne says, “She’s going to jail,” if he doesn’t get the sample. After Wubbels consults with several hospital officials and repeats the policy, Payne tells her she is under arrest and grabs her, pulling her arms behind her back and handcuffing her. The footage shows the detective dragging her out of the hospital and putting her inside a patrol car as she screams.

Parts of the footage were shown Thursday at a news conference at the office of Karra Porter, a Salt Lake City attorney representing Wubbels. Salt Lake City police Sgt. Brandon Shearer said the department started an internal investigation, which is ongoing, in response to the incident. Payne was temporarily suspended from the department’s blood-draw program — where officers are trained as phlebotomists so they can get blood samples — but remains on duty, Shearer said. The department also has held training for the officers in the program, he said. In a written report, Payne said he was responding to a request from another police department to get the blood sample, to determine if the patient had any chemical substances in his system at the time of the crash. Payne explained the “exigent circumstances and implied consent law” to Wubbels, but she said “her police won't allow me to obtain the blood sample without a warrant,” his report says.

Payne said he was advised by the watch commander on duty that night to arrest Wobbles for interfering with a police investigation if she refused to let him get the sample. Porter said Wubbels’ No. 1 concern is to prevent a recurrence of what happened to her. There have been discussions of the matter with Salt Lake City Police Department about educating officers, but Porter said but no claim or lawsuit had been filed. Wubbels, 41, who was at the news conference, has watched the footage four or five times and said that “it hurts to relive it.” She never said “no” when Payne asked to take a blood sample, but merely explained the blood draw policy to him, according to Wubbels, who also said she was trying to keep her patient safe and do things the right way. Logan police had requested the blood sample, according to what was said on the footage. Porter stressed that the unconscious patient was always considered the victim in the crash.

Porter and Wubbels declined to give any information on the patient, including gender, but Payne’s report identifies him as 43-year-old William Gray, a reserve officer in the Rigby, Idaho, police department, who suffered burns during a July 26 crash in Cache County. Gray is a truck driver when he is not serving as a reserve police officer, according to the Idaho State Journal. At about 2 p.m. on July 26, Gray was driving a semi north on State Road 89/91 near Sardine Canyon when a man fleeing from the Utah Highway Patrol crashed a pickup truck head-on into him, according to Logan police, who investigated the crash. The crash caused an explosion and fire, Logan police have said. Gray was on fire when he exited the semi. The driver of the pickup truck, Marcos Torres, 26, died at the scene. Police have said Torres was fleeing from the UHP after other drivers reported him driving recklessly. On Thursday, Gray was in serious condition at University Hospital, officials there said.

Last edited by Minnie; 09-01-2017 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:34 PM   #2
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I think the nurse was released and the detective suspended.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:38 PM   #3
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Sounds like it. But yikes.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:40 PM   #4
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its a third world country at this point, little health care or welfare, a police force that answers to no one and uses military equipment on the streets, a massive imbalance between rich and poor and a complete moron in charge of it all
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
its a third world country at this point, little health care or welfare, a police force that answers to no one and uses military equipment on the streets, a massive imbalance between rich and poor and a complete moron in charge of it all
you misspelled "cockwomble"
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:43 PM   #6
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That detective should never work as a police officer ever again.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
its a third world country at this point, little health care or welfare, a police force that answers to no one and uses military equipment on the streets, a massive imbalance between rich and poor and a complete moron in charge of it all
Land of the free, but they exponentially increase their incarceration rates.
Home of the brave, just don't restrict their access to guns.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by troutman View Post
I think the nurse was released and the detective suspended.
The report I read indicated he'd been reassigned but remained on active duty.

If that status hasn't changed already I suspect it will soon.

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Old 09-01-2017, 02:11 PM   #9
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welcome to the new american police state. our country is a #### show. you don't dare disagree with a law enforcement officer. at least some of this is coming to light after decades of them sweeping it under the rug.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:15 PM   #10
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Was gonna say. Nothing 'new' about it. Thanks to body cams though, the taxpayer gets to shell out for a bunch of million dollar settlements every year.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:22 PM   #11
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welcome to the new american police state. our country is a #### show. you don't dare disagree with a law enforcement officer. at least some of this is coming to light after decades of them sweeping it under the rug.
This nurse wasn't even saying no - she was just explaining the hospital's policy. She is merely the messenger, doing exactly her job. You can hear on the phone prior to the arrest that the hospital admin are telling the cops that she is merely the messenger.

A couple questions though - why don't the other police officers there step in and stop this? Also, why doesn't hospital security & admin walk up after the police have arrested her, and kick the police off site - or at the very least, walk up to the police car and ask the nurse to get out? - i.e. Why doesn't the hospital staff have authority over the police when it's clear that the police aren't following the law?
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:25 PM   #12
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Wonder how long it takes Trump to pardon this one.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed View Post
This nurse wasn't even saying no - she was just explaining the hospital's policy. She is merely the messenger, doing exactly her job. You can hear on the phone prior to the arrest that the hospital admin are telling the cops that she is merely the messenger.

A couple questions though - why don't the other police officers there step in and stop this? Also, why doesn't hospital security & admin walk up after the police have arrested her, and kick the police off site - or at the very least, walk up to the police car and ask the nurse to get out? - i.e. Why doesn't the hospital staff have authority over the police when it's clear that the police aren't following the law?
The hospital should have called the police to report that there were men dressed as police officers assaulting hospital staff. Would have made for an interesting situation.

Edit- hospital staff have no authority over police, and regardless of the circumstance asking the nurse to get out of the police car while under arrest would probably be some form of obstruction of justice

Last edited by iggy_oi; 09-01-2017 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:30 PM   #14
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Thought I read somewhere that the patient was on the reserve police force, but drove trucks on the side when not on duty. Maybe Payne knew the patient, and wanted to protect him (acquire evidence he wasn't drunk, perhaps)?
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:33 PM   #15
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Thought I read somewhere that the patient was on the reserve police force, but drove trucks on the side when not on duty. Maybe Payne knew the patient, and wanted to protect him (acquire evidence he wasn't drunk, perhaps)?
Which is a bit odd as the truck was clearly minding its own business and the other car essentially drove across the lane and straight into him on purpose, cant see any reason the truck driver would be even part of an investigation
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:33 PM   #16
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Edit- hospital staff have no authority over police, and regardless of the circumstance asking the nurse to get out of the police car while under arrest would probably be some form of obstruction of justice
Dunno about the US, but here, you're entitled to resist an unlawful arrest, so it wouldn't be I don't think.

I think the main point here is that the detective somehow thought he had the power to force medical staff to undertake medical procedures they didn't want to perform. What's next? "Doc, you'd better perform this appendectomy immediately or I'm throwing you in the clink."
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:42 PM   #17
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Dunno about the US, but here, you're entitled to resist an unlawful arrest, so it wouldn't be I don't think.

I think the main point here is that the detective somehow thought he had the power to force medical staff to undertake medical procedures they didn't want to perform. What's next? "Doc, you'd better perform this appendectomy immediately or I'm throwing you in the clink."
They have the same right in the states, but I don't know if bystanders have the right to intervene, which is why I don't think the hospital staff are able to do anything other than(ironically) calling the police.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
Dunno about the US, but here, you're entitled to resist an unlawful arrest, so it wouldn't be I don't think.

I think the main point here is that the detective somehow thought he had the power to force medical staff to undertake medical procedures they didn't want to perform. What's next? "Doc, you'd better perform this appendectomy immediately or I'm throwing you in the clink."
From the article, it sounds like the police force has this team trained to draw blood themselves, so the police aren't asking the nurse to draw blood, they are asking to do it themselves. The nurse then (correctly) states that the policy in place as agreed on between the hospital and the PD doesn't allow for the PD to do so. It's a good policy, because without it, the police would be drawing blood without any consent.

Obviously, the police have made the request, the nurse has said "No, it's against policy," and when the Police didn't like that answer, the nurse got hospital admin on the phone.

I can understand from the police point of view, they are doing a death investigation, and although the blood test for the victim aren't particularly relevant, they want to gather as much information and evidence as possible. But policies exist for a reason.

I just don't understand how a polite conversation with the nurse all of a sudden turns into the police officer flipping a switch and dragging her out of the building. It's completely clear that she's just doing her job, and she's directing them to work it out with the hospital admin.

If the nurse let the police go in against policy, she probably would have lost her job.
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed View Post
From the article, it sounds like the police force has this team trained to draw blood themselves, so the police aren't asking the nurse to draw blood, they are asking to do it themselves. The nurse then (correctly) states that the policy in place as agreed on between the hospital and the PD doesn't allow for the PD to do so. It's a good policy, because without it, the police would be drawing blood without any consent.

Obviously, the police have made the request, the nurse has said "No, it's against policy," and when the Police didn't like that answer, the nurse got hospital admin on the phone.

I can understand from the police point of view, they are doing a death investigation, and although the blood test for the victim aren't particularly relevant, they want to gather as much information and evidence as possible. But policies exist for a reason.

I just don't understand how a polite conversation with the nurse all of a sudden turns into the police officer flipping a switch and dragging her out of the building. It's completely clear that she's just doing her job, and she's directing them to work it out with the hospital admin.

If the nurse let the police go in against policy, she probably would have lost her job.
I also don't see why at the time the police needed a sample of the blood at all.
the guy was an innocent victim. the bad guy perhaps, but not the truck driver.

would love to know about the “exigent circumstances and implied consent law” Payne quoted to the nurse.

no way the nurse should have been arrested like that because the cop didn't get his way.
wonder if after they arrested her the cops took the blood sample anyway.
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:08 PM   #20
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its a third world country at this point, little health care or welfare, a police force that answers to no one and uses military equipment on the streets, a massive imbalance between rich and poor and a complete moron in charge of it all
You know...I wanted to comment that this is an insane statement all things considered but...I dont think I can.
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