70% say Notley doesn't know what Albertans want/57% say UCP is to conservative

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Every party here is pro-pipeline. That doesn't strike me a left/right policy in the least.

Federally, the Liberals have approved pipelines and that's an argument for another thread.

This isn’t to single you out, but I think the bolded is a perfect example of what Flash is trying to say. It wouldn’t be considered a left/right policy by most Albertans either, but move the issue to any province other than Saskatchewan and only right leaning parties would be pro-pipeline.

I’ll put it into a context. Today Donald Trump may come off to many people as an egotistical racist, but if he were the exact same person living in America 200 years ago, he’d probably only be considered egotistical. It’s all about perception.

Alberta has had generations of a right wing leaning government, when you grow accustomed to that type of environment even the slightest movement to the left seems like a massive leap. I didn’t consider Stelmach, Redford or Prentice Centre-right, their policies simply leaned too heavily to the right. They were certainly more centrist than the wildrose for example, but that’s more of a commentary on how far right the wildrose were as a party.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

There is no evidence that they(NDP) believe in private enterprise as someone on the right would, it is simply a means to an end(a left wing one). Therefore the pipeline policy cannot be categorized as "right wing".

What exactly are you trying to say here? What evidence do you have to support your claim that they don’t believe in private enterprise the way someone on the right would? I mean I actually would agree that there are differences in points of view, but I think your statement is a little bit broad if you have nothing to base it on other than your perception.

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It is definitely a left right policy, they are being ostracized for it by their counter parts in the left of the spectrum.

In Canada environmental policy is almost wholly dictated by interest on the left of the spectrum. Pipeline and energy extraction infrastructure is almost wholly the domain of the right side.

Do you know who builds pipeline infrastructure? Big companies with large unionized work forces.
Type local into the elections alberta finance page and see what party is the biggest recipient of money from industrial labour unions.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Redford's PCs won 61 of 87 seats.

She didn't win the election. Danielle Smith handed it to her on a silver platter when she failed to drop those 2 wingnuts from her party during the election.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think he is saying 50 percent is the corruption, 50 percent the conservatize old boy backlash.

I don't know if I agree but I think that's what he is saying.

You said it was the "snap back to conservatism" that led to her downfall, which I took as his 50%, and the other 50% being not being a part of the "old boys club".

Incidentally, while you hand wave at her personal failings, you also essentially completely excuse them as a reason for her demise.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You said it was the "snap back to conservatism" that led to her downfall, which I took as his 50%, and the other 50% being not being a part of the "old boys club".

Incidentally, while you hand wave at her personal failings, you also essentially completely excuse them as a reason for her demise.

Not really. Her corruption and attempts to broaden the support alliance with public sector unions was a significant factor in that snap back.

If Redford is more like Thatcher there is little need to claw back territory for simple conservatives. But she wasn't an austerity champion, she was making deals with unions and building palaces in the sky. Easy mark.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

Do you know who builds pipeline infrastructure? Big companies with large unionized work forces.
Type local into the elections alberta finance page and see what party is the biggest recipient of money from industrial labour unions.

Do you actually believe that the reason that pipelines are being approved is to appease unions?

You should try typing in “oil” in the disclosure search engine if you still don’t believe that pipelines are political issue.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

Do you know who builds pipeline infrastructure? Big companies with large unionized work forces.
Type local into the elections alberta finance page and see what party is the biggest recipient of money from industrial labour unions.

Except that in other parts of the country when unions have come up against environmentalists, the NDP have generally sided with the environmentalists (e.g. BC) so Flash's point still stands.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by nik-

Can I want a party that doesn't spend like crazy but doesn't partner with people who dislike gay people, or does that make me selfish?

The social conservatives really do ruin good governance in this province. Roughly 15-20% of the Alberta population seems to be socially conservative and operate at the furthest right of the spectrum. By default a party that does not have room for them in their tent and also has to get 40-50% of the vote to form government, almost always by process of elimination has to dip into 'the government has more of a role to play here' crowd for support which then results in the levels of spending that are higher than desired from a right of center viewpoint.

That's why Redford needed to bribe teachers and why a SoCon is the current UCP interim leader.

You want to cut the deficit and balance the books by cutting costs without jacking taxes too much = You have to deal with bigoted hicks being part of the governing party

Can't deal with bigoted hicks in your party = you have to deal with paying off the public sector and bribing left of center voters with more tax dollars.

It could work a different way if the Socially Conservative were able to be reasoned with into more libertarian positions, but when you're speaking about things that go against their bible it's not just them that have to live by it, you have to as well.