Thought it was the sequel we all deserved. However, I have to agree it was so similar to the original it felt like a remake. Basically, all the same major plot points with a little variation. The father/son stuff, Luke/Yoda, death star, orphan roaming around in the desert, jedi in isolation after their apprentice becomes evil, etc...
Spoiler!
I mean, the three heroes invading the bad guys big base to save the damsel felt almost exactly like the first movie. Except Rey seemed a little bit more like Obi-Wan sneaking around. And then the resistance fighters desperately taking out the superweapon as its about to blow away them away, complete with a countdown to firing. Heck, Poe even had an even more elaborate trench run after Han and Chewie's charges made an opening for him. Complete with flanking wingmates getting shot down and flying into pieces.
It almost felt like a love letter to the original movie at times. Much as Superman Returns seemed to be to the 1978 Superman movie.
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How does Kylo go from stopping a blaster shot from 20 some feet away, and hold it in the air like a badass, to losing a lightsaber fight with Rey? How can somebody who was trained by Luke Skywalker from a young age lose to somebody who had never held a lightsaber before? At points, Kylo appeared more powerful than a lot of the Jedi from the prequel trilogy.
I really like Kylo Ren, but I think this character flaw has been too played out in this series. Panicking, fear... it's kind of boring.
I'm also disappointed we didn't hear more about who Snoke was, but I suppose they'll leave some stuff for the next movies.
Spoiler!
As for the Kylo Ren fight, using the force requires extreme focus. Kylo was distracted by a few fairly major things, and as you say he's prone to panic, which makes things worse:
1) He was injured and bleeding. They made a point of drawing attention to this.
2) He had just killed his own father and was super emo about it.
3) He was using an inferior light sabre, and was further distracted by the sight of Luke's old light sabre.
4) He didn't want to hurt Rey, he wanted to convert her to his side. The same reason that Luke was not decimated in any of his fights with Vader. I think that Kylo senses that Rey is related to him somehow (Luke's daughter and Kylo's cousin?). It's questionable that Kylo even lost this fight. He defeated Fin and may have just been toying with Rey.
5) Kylo Ren has a lot of power, but his training is not complete. He's more at the level of Anakin in Episode 2 than at the level of Vader. It typically takes a lifetime to become a true master.
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I will say that audiences are well trained for after credit scenes now. I'd estimate about 85% of the audience stuck around right until the very end.
It was weird seeing the opening with the Lucasfilm logo without the 20th Century Fox fanfare. The first paragraph of the opening crawl for this movie was about 1000% more interesting than everything written for the prequel crawls.
Last edited by Finger Cookin; 12-17-2015 at 11:16 PM.
I mean, the three heroes invading the bad guys big base to save the damsel felt almost exactly like the first movie. Except Rey seemed a little bit more like Obi-Wan sneaking around. And then the resistance fighters desperately taking out the superweapon as its about to blow away them away, complete with a countdown to firing. Heck, Poe even had an even more elaborate trench run after Han and Chewie's charges made an opening for him. Complete with flanking wingmates getting shot down and flying into pieces.
It almost felt like a love letter to the original movie at times. Much as Superman Returns seemed to be to the 1978 Superman movie.
Spoiler!
I guess you can give them some leaway as there's always been an element of repeating cycles in the franchise. Masters/apprentices, history repeating itself, people not learning from the past, etc...This movie may have been just a manifestation of that.
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How does Kylo go from stopping a blaster shot from 20 some feet away, and hold it in the air like a badass, to losing a lightsaber fight with Rey? How can somebody who was trained by Luke Skywalker from a young age lose to somebody who had never held a lightsaber before? At points, Kylo appeared more powerful than a lot of the Jedi from the prequel trilogy.
I really like Kylo Ren, but I think this character flaw has been too played out in this series. Panicking, fear... it's kind of boring.
I'm also disappointed we didn't hear more about who Snoke was, but I suppose they'll leave some stuff for the next movies.
Spoiler!
They set it up throughout the movie. They made a point over and over again of showing how powerful Chewie's bow weapon was. After Kylo killed Han, Chewie shot him with it and he pretty much absorbed the blast without exploding or being thrown back 20 feet through the air like some of the stormtroopers did. Kylo was injured pretty badly even before the fight with Finn and Rey. They made a point of showing the blood on the ground before the fight, and having him beat his chest to pump himself up to get through the pain. My take on it is that he was using a big chunk of his force powers just being able to walk, let alone fight. Rey may not be trained in using a lightsaber, but they did show her being proficient with her staff weapon.
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They set it up throughout the movie. They made a point over and over again of showing how powerful Chewie's bow weapon was. After Kylo killed Han, Chewie shot him with it and he pretty much absorbed the blast without exploding or being thrown back 20 feet through the air like some of the stormtroopers did. Kylo was injured pretty badly even before the fight with Finn and Rey. They made a point of showing the blood on the ground before the fight, and having him beat his chest to pump himself up to get through the pain. My take on it is that he was using a big chunk of his force powers just being able to walk, let alone fight. Rey may not be trained in using a lightsaber, but they did show her being proficient with her staff weapon.
Spoiler!
I think we'll find out that the injury was really bad. It'll end up with Kylo getting some cybernetic parts installed.
Very fun movie. Yeah there's fan service and some re-hashed plot points. But this movie gave us something that Star Wars hasn't had in a long time: heart. I'm really excited to see where they are going to go with this. But I have to say this:
Spoiler!
Who honestly didn't see Han's death coming? Like seriously.
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why are we using the spoiler tags in the spoiler thread?
I'm using them out of courtesy, just in case someone accidentally clicks the wrong thread.
While walking out of the theater tonight I told my wife to not say a single word about the movie until we were in the car. Didn't want someone to hear a spoiler while on their way to see the movie.
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Who honestly didn't see Han's death coming? Like seriously.
Spoiler!
You could see it being set up, and I was hoping they were going for a fake out and have Han get saved by Chewie/Finn/Rey at the last moment. All hope of that went down the drain when Kylo said "I'm torn apart, I know what to do but I don't know if I have the strength to do it....Will you help me?".....fate sealed. On the other hand though, I'm glad that they left no room for questioning if he is really dead or not. He gets run through by the lightsaber, falls off the bridge an enormous distance, and then the planet blows up. Not much room for interpretation there.
Last edited by Roast Beef; 12-18-2015 at 01:17 AM.
I definitely agree about the cyclical nature of the franchise, I think that's kind of the whole point. Its a balance between the light and the dark side, and their reactionary forces against one another.
Loved it.
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I don't get the "felt too much like A New Hope" comments. I get the similarities, but they weren't really that blatant. I still 100% felt like I was watching something new. I mean these were brand new, VERY different characters, the antagonists are nothing like Darth/Sidious, and Finn and Rey are very much their own as well. New planets, new droid companion. Some recycled, but it really did not bother me in the slightest.
The big Solo scene was pretty emotional, not going to lie (blah bah, just like Obi-Wan's in ANH, yes we know). But IMO I felt it was acted a little over dramatically on Ford's part and that moment was kind of drawn out. It should've been a quicker "disposal", as if to almost NOT give Solo the respect he deserves, which would've made it all the more shocking and enraging. It does set Kylo apart in terms of his brutality, as even Vader wouldn't often do so to an unarmed enemy. And that was family, too.
One critic did say that much of the second half of the film felt like it came straight off of cue cards, which I kind of agree with. Definitely some unneeded exposition, like Poe's "as long as we do this before the sun sets!.." which was unnecessary. Not a huge complaint but a lot of it was too convenient to be believable. Finn crash landing within walking distance of Rey and BB-8. Millenium Falcon happening to be sitting there (although the "what? that garbage?" was absolutely hilarious), them flying straight into Solo 10 minutes after escaping. It felt like intentionally planted dominoes set up, like we were being walked through a planned route of SW exhibits or something.
Other things that bugged me. How did Hux find Kylo before the planet exploded? The heroes barely made it out in time. Did he even bother? I get the cliffhanger thing, but at least don't leave a gaping hole like that. If Kylo is magically fine and safe the next time we see him then it'll be a bit irritating seeing as there's no way Hux could've located him in time, so how could he get out? Also how did Kylo get ahead of Rey and Finn in the forest, practically already waiting for them, when he was far behind them minutes before? I mean it's seemingly minor things to be picky about, but at least keep the timing of things semi-believable.
Snoke looked awfully CGI'd, unfortunately, but then we saw it was just a hologram. Hopefully he looks glorious in person. Is he going to be that massive? That's pretty crazy. Any people feeling that he is in fact Darth Plagueis under a new title? That was never revealed. What is his origin? Would've been nice to know.
I felt that Poe was underused as he was probably the most charismatic of the leads. Already like him a lot! Han and Chewie had the best chemistry between all the characters, not surprisingly, though Finn and Rey seemed completely natural themselves.
Did Luke have to be standing on the edge of the cliff as if waiting that whole time? They should've had him cooped up in a cave or something, I think it would've been cooler. NONETHELESS, epic, epic final moment. Again, stupid question, but why would they send Rey, this newcomer they hardly know, to go after Luke, and not Leia herself, or someone with ties to him (that they're aware of)? Seems odd.
I don't fully like how quickly Rey discovered her powers and became adept in using them. Unless she is super, super powerful. She also had never touched a lightsaber before, how could she handle herself in a duel like that? Are we expected to chalk it all up to the Force? Perhaps...but it's a head scratcher. At least Luke had some guidance from Obi-Wan, even though his learning was pretty fast tracked too. I guess Kylo was somewhat of an amateur still as well.
AWESOME interesting fact: The stormtrooper guarding Rey who says "I'll tighten those restraints, you scavenger scum" and proceeds to be mind tricked = Daniel Craig!
All these things aside, I liked a lot of it. I liked the overall feel and aesthetic. It looked and felt like Star Wars. So it's not like I thought it was anywhere near terrible. Although a lot of little things bugged me for whatever reason.
Also anyone else think Rey and Kylo are cousins?
Last edited by ScorchyScorch; 12-18-2015 at 02:13 AM.
I enjoyed it, but maybe not as crazy about it as the critics seems to be- It felt less like Star Wars than any of the prequels, which was probably inevitable.
Main complaint- Kylo Ren, and the First Order in general, were just not scary or intimidating enough. Kylo Ren certainly doesn't need to be invincible like Vader was right from the beginning, but there was just very little about the new villains that made you fear them the way the empire did right from the beginning of episode 4. Obviously we all expect this to change in the sequels as Kylo Ren gets more of the training they referenced at the end.
And although Leia was pretty dull and a big disappointment, I really like the new heros.
Loved the movie and everything it sets up going forward. And that's what it is....set-up. Establishes what's going on in the universe, introduces the key players and gets everything going. Great effects, good acting. Action, action & action mixed in with moments of real emotion (especially Han/Leia).
It was great seeing Han, Leia & Chewie again. And the Falcon. Best. Ship. Ever.
And the "tantrums" that Kylo Ren throws at various times.....hilarious and perfectly show how unstable he is.
Biggest problem I had is that there were so many people to introduce, they didn't have time to do a lot of folks justice....especially the bad guys.
Some examples: General Hux had a few scenes and he's basically Hitler. Okay.
Captain Phasma, we're told, is this kick butt special stormtrooper and I've read things that say she's awesome. She's only in what.....3 or 4 scenes? And the most notable thing she does is get clobbered by Chewie. I hope she gets more screen time in Ep 8 so we can see what she can do.
Snoke is the big bad guy but he's only in 3 or 4 quick scenes as a hologram. It's implied that he's huge & he's obviously powerful but we just don't see him do anything.
Maz Kanata is interesting and clearly knows a lot.....but she has such little screen time.
Luke - I understand why they did what they did with him and obviously he'll play a much bigger role in Ep 8. Still, I wanted to see a little bit more about him.
They're all cool characters (well, except for maybe Hux), but I would've loved to have had a bit more development.
Last edited by dakeyras; 12-18-2015 at 02:00 AM.
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I was able to sneak in a viewing in a mostly-empty theatre, which I thought was great.
Overall, I really liked it. I had wondered about BB8, but found him amusing.
Did anyone else catch the Indiana Jones reference-ish with Ford?
I could see Han's death coming as soon as he stepped out onto that bridge (after first asking myself why they always build something like that in, in the first place!)
I have some problems with the final fight, too. It looked good, visually, but I have problems with someone with Ren's purported level of Force control getting that easily jacked by someone who has NEVER even HELD a lightsaber before in addition to just coming into her Force power. And a lightsaber and a staff are two very different weapons. Don't believe me? Train in using a staff then pick up a sword.
Ren's going to get some cybernetics, for sure. Didn't Rey cut his hand off? Which, thinking about it, is one of the fastest and best ways to end a fight with a lightsaber wielding Jedi.
My opinion's probably colored by the fact that I never really felt that Ren was much more than a whiny nobody. General Hux doesn't give a fig about him, the troopers around him seem ho-hum to him. When he loses his temper he breaks THINGS, not people. Just...didn't get the vibe/fear/feeling off of him that I did off of Vader, who menaced and oozed evil every second he was on the screen in the first two.
I was also kinda disappointed, after the buildup, of how little Captain Phasma was used. I hope we see more of her. Or that a Director's Cut reveals why she got a big PR push beyond trying to suck in Game of Thrones fans.
The X-Wing/Tie Fighter fight...glorious!
Rey's gonna have to watch that temper. Or she'll get a fast track to the Dark side.
Last edited by WhiteTiger; 12-18-2015 at 02:04 AM.
I must have misunderstood the initial scene with Luke's lightsaber completely.
Didn't Maz specifically say that the force is very strong in the Skywalker family, followed by reciting it's occurrence in Darth Vader, Luke, and now Rey?
On the other hand though, I'm glad that they left no room for questioning if he is really dead or not. He gets run through by the lightsaber, falls off the bridge an enormous distance, and then the planet blows up. Not much room for interpretation there.
