The more interesting comparison of Avatar and Star Wars is the cultural impact. Clearly many many people watched both movies but after the hype died down people are still interested and talk about Star Wars. No one talks about Avatar. It is amazing how much a phenomenon that movie was and how it fell off the face of the planet.
The more interesting comparison of Avatar and Star Wars is the cultural impact. Clearly many many people watched both movies but after the hype died down people are still interested and talk about Star Wars. No one talks about Avatar. It is amazing how much a phenomenon that movie was and how it fell off the face of the planet.
I think you could say the same of any non-franchise, really.
Even something like Lord of the Rings. Those movies were gigantic hits when they came out, everyone was talking about them, you couldn't go two steps without hearing about Lord of the Rings. Sure, in a discussion they'll come up every now and then as great films or whatever else, but is there anyone really jacked up about Lord of the Rings anymore?
I think the only reason Avatar seems odd is because it's almost a "last of it's kind" type movie. If that movie came out today, they would already have scripts written and pre-production started on multiple sequels before it even hit theatres. (I'm aware there's planned sequels, but those obviously didn't come to fruition until after Avatar was a huge hit, and are still several years out). Now, even every moderate hit has plans for a whole swath of sequels and spin-offs, so you never stop hearing about it.
Avatar = Fern Gully The Last Rainforest on steroids. Only thing missing is a crazy Bat voiced by Robin Williams. "I'm Blind!.......I can see! It's a Miracle!"
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Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay
Avatar was simply Dances with Wolves on another planet.
The real revelation here is that there are people who think that either Fern Gully or Dances With Wolves are or ever were considered original themselves.
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Its a pretty interesting theory but personally I hope not.
I've heard theories that Rey is also a reincarnated Anakin
the daughter of Luke
The hidden daughter of Han and Leia
another spontaneous birth by the force.
I personally hope that she's none of the above, and Kylo's almost obsessive behavior around her is based on knowing her at the academy and her being the only one to befriend a lonely Ben Solo.
As for the other things.
She's untrained, so she's a lot like Anakin was when he was a kid, controlled by his emotions, and balancing between the Light and the Dark Side. Because she's probably never been fully trained, when she faced the guy who killed Han Solo, really the only man that had shown kindness to her she would seek vengeance and teeter on the dark side.
If you look at Anakin when he fought Dooku in revenge of the Sith, at the start of the fight he fought a different style. at about 2 minutes into the below video, when Dooku confronted Anakin with his anger and hatred and encouraged him to use it, it was almost like Anakin suddenly got permission to use his emotions and his style became heavier and more punative.
When she was pacing after striking down Ren like a predator savoring its prey she was almost Anakin like, we saw that in ROTS when Obi-Wan and Anakin were talking pre duel and Anakin was pacing like a predator. We could also argue that Rey is related to Darth Maul who paced like that as well.
I tend to think that its key that the Lucas Film creative director said that we hadn't met Rey's parents in Episode 7. That to me is interesting because the actual Star Wars movies are fairly lacking in terms of stable relationships. So I can't see us suddenly getting introduced to Palpatine and his main squeeze in the next movie cooing over a force strong grand baby.
On top of that, it would make no sense to have Rey as Palpatines grand daughter, because then he would have never ordered Vader to bring him Luke, he would have had him executed on the spot as a rival to his force strong son or daughter. Plus Palpatine if he was living by the rule of two would have perceived Vader as a threat and killed him long ago as his son or daughter showed Force Potential.
Personally as much as the argument is about the Skywalker history, or even just Anakin Skywalker, you could argue that Star Wars is about the live and adventures of R2 D2 and C3PO.
I think the theory is a stretch, and I keep hoping that Rey is just an incredibly force strong orphan who found her way to the Jedi, befriended a lonely and darkening Kylo Ren who saved her and abandoned her on Jakku, or Luke Abandoned her there, whichever. And she hovers between the light and dark because she's still on the starting path to her destiny.
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Its kind of funny because Star Wars movies all seem to be about pre-destiny.
Nothing was going to prevent Palpatines rise and the destruction of the Jedi. Nothing was going to prevent Anakin's fall.
The Force always seems to adjust and flow by its own design.
The Sith become this massive bloated army and the Force puts a reformer in the way.
The Jedi become arrogant and self entitled and lose their original mission and the Force arranges for a Dark Uber in Palpatine to send them tumbling.
Palptaine become arrogant and the force clouds his abilities and sends the chosen one to do a cleanup on Aisle three.
But I always wondered, could Obi-Wan have fallen instead of Anakin. Once if in attack of the clones he bought into the deception by Dooku and was slowly turned to the Darkside? Would we have seen Emperor Dooku the first and a Dark Obiwan at his side and the death of Palpatine and Anakin before they could rise.
What if the Jedi had found Palpatine as a baby, I mean he was probably the most powerful force user in the galaxy at one point of time. Would he have eventually fallen to his fate, or would we see a kind gentle justice driven Palpatine, and no one to mastermind the fall of the galaxy?
What if Luke had accepted his fathers offer in the name of saving his friends, or accepted Palpatines offer in the name of saving his friends?
I know there have been a lot of cartoons that had those theories, but frankly none of them were very good
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That is fairly believable that she is the grand daughter of Palpatine, the fight choreography being the most evident. Actually it would make the most sense of all and bring things together better than if she is Lukes daughter. She'll be tempted to kill Luke but betray the dark side (hopefully).
She's also going to become a leader or a general or something. Her affinity to learning force powers is unmatched as far as I've seen. She figured things out in minutes that took Luke days, weeks or months. She has intuitive powers and learns much faster than Anakin ever did. She seems exponentially more powerful than any of them asides from Palpatine and Yoda.
That is fairly believable that she is the grand daughter of Palpatine, the fight choreography being the most evident. Actually it would make the most sense of all and bring things together better than if she is Lukes daughter. She'll be tempted to kill Luke but betray the dark side (hopefully).
She's also going to become a leader or a general or something. Her affinity to learning force powers is unmatched as far as I've seen. She figured things out in minutes that took Luke days, weeks or months. She has intuitive powers and learns much faster than Anakin ever did. She seems exponentially more powerful than any of them asides from Palpatine and Yoda.
I can't think of a single thing she did that would lead me to believe she's more powerful than any other jedi. Fast learner, yes, but no evidence of being more powerful and certainly not exponentially more powerful (yet).
That is fairly believable that she is the grand daughter of Palpatine, the fight choreography being the most evident. Actually it would make the most sense of all and bring things together better than if she is Lukes daughter. She'll be tempted to kill Luke but betray the dark side (hopefully).
She's also going to become a leader or a general or something. Her affinity to learning force powers is unmatched as far as I've seen. She figured things out in minutes that took Luke days, weeks or months. She has intuitive powers and learns much faster than Anakin ever did. She seems exponentially more powerful than any of them asides from Palpatine and Yoda.
What you said makes me feel like she's similar to Anakin in that she's a some kind of predestined creation via the Force. She can still have a mom and dad, but maybe the force choose her.
It would explain her ability to pick up the force so quickly and use it so effectively.
I guess part of me is that I really don't want her to be a Skywalker or a Cos Palpatine. (The thought of the whole seduction scene between Palpatine and some drunken girl where he shows her his deep fried and cooked sithballs Is cringeworthy)
I do go back to the scene where Snoke says, there has been an awakening have you felt it? Makes me really think that Rey is a physical manifestation of the Force, neither dark nor light.
The other theory that I really liked goes back to the celestrials in TCW series where you had the father as the balance of the force containing the dark (Son) and the Light (Daughter). At the end all three of them died and left the force in chaos. What if Rey is a new Celestial? a being of pure Force strength and power not dark, not light and perfectly balanced?
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I can't think of a single thing she did that would lead me to believe she's more powerful than any other jedi. Fast learner, yes, but no evidence of being more powerful and certainly not exponentially more powerful (yet).
What other force sensitive user learned so much on their own so fast with such a wide range of abilities? Anakin was a master engineer that was it, they had to use stupid sensors to figure it out. Rey was seeing into the distant past and learning to defeat other force users without help (albeit a wounded one, Finn was a battle trained soldier and he lost instantly whereas a skinny untrained scavenger beat him relatively easily). Intuition and quick learning seem to be a major part of her character.
I'd say the mind trick is indicative of her power as she figured it out right away from across a room and it's something that other jedi users need mastery and the proper conditions to perform. Luke didn't even recognize what happened when Obi-Wan performed it but Rey could perform a more difficult mind trick than Obi-Wan did.
And the telekenesis too. She pulled it a good 20-30 feet untrained whereas a trained Luke had trouble pulling a saber from 4 feet away and he had to really focus and calm himself to execute it. Not only that but she overpowered Kylo Ren's telekenetic pull from roughly twice the distance, that's pretty convincing evidence right there she's not normal.
She also proved herself to be a high level mechanic and electrician that was able to solve complex problems on the spot. What other character is so skilled and intelligent with answers seemingly coming out of thin air?
I get your assessment that the movie didn't outright say she's that powerful but it really really seemed to be hinting at it. Finn flew through the air and moments later Rey had Kylo on the ground at the mercy of her will after performing telekenesis. An untrained scavenger had one of Lukes former disciples at the end of a light saber. Rey was going to have to choose between the light and the dark when the ground broke because she was contemplating killing him, the whole sequence being emblematic of her struggle between the dark and the light emphasized by the fracturing of the ground beneath her.
You bring up some good points, but I believe you're selling Anakin short.
In PM, Qui-Gon bought up with his mother that he had unnatural reflexes, and it was due to him using the force, he was literally seeing ahead of time and reacting to it.
When he flew the fighter, he wasn't touched in a pretty overwhelming battle, also in the book which is still canon they talk about him flying into the Trade Federation Ship and not by instinct but by the force telling him, he fired on the reactor basically that was out of sight crippling the ship.
In ROTS when Dooku was preparing to fight Anakin and Obi-Wan he was wondering why they were bothering with this charade, he felt that Anakin was below notice, however when he started fighting Anakin he saw two things through the force. His Force image or what he looked like was a massive storm (Palpatine was like an event horizon, and Obi's was like a calm sunny meadow) and when he fought Anakin he realized that the boy was a natural force user, he just knew how to draw on the Force.
In the book PM, Anakin was sent to the desert to get some droid parts by Watto, halfway back he came across a wounded Tusken Raider. He was set upon by other Raiders and through the force calmed them down so they wouldn't attack him.
In terms of natural users, I really wish they wouldn't have removed some books from Canon. The Darth Plagueis book showed the unbelievable power of Palpatine. He murdered his parents through the force before he was trained by basically tearing them apart with the Force. Also when he first met Plagueis he threw up a Force barrier so powerful that the Dark Lord of the Sith didn't even realize that he was force sensitive. Also in the end, it turned out that through a lot of brilliance and through the use of the force he had played Plagueis like an idiot for about 30 years.
You are completely correct about a few things that I didn't even think about, the lightsaber pull being foremost. She pulled that thing a massive distance with authority, whereas Luke had trouble pulling his saber to him and it was feet away.
Also in favor of the Palpatine theory is that the biggest power that Palpatine had was his ability to view the currents of the force, he could envision the future and multiple futures and that's why he was the great tactician that he was, however I'm convinced that the Force did turn on him in the end and denied him a lot of his forethought.
I'm not sure if Rey's vision is as much a memory more then anything else bought on by touching Luke's lightsaber.
But overall, I do agree, she is very powerful, she has a lot of things that scream darkside going for her as well, and I do think that will be the whole story of this trilogy is Rey's struggle with her darker side. They took Han Solo away and she really reacted out of Grief and rage and a desire for revenge. Who else can they take from her? To me the obvious thing if they're going to move the Star Wars universe away from the older generation is Luke himself, and that will be in my mind the temptation of the fall.
I just have this funny story in my head that Luke trains Rey, and somewhere along the line she and Luke confront Kylo and Snoke. Snoke kills Luke which shows how powerful he is, and Rey goes on a rampage sliding to the Dark Side, but not to join Snoke and Kylo but to kill them, her justification is to bring her version of peace to the galaxy and gain revenge for Luke's death. In the end the redeeming moment comes with Snoke dead, and Kylo on his knees pleading for his life and mercy and Rey has to decide to take the final steps down the path to complete darkness or let go of her fear, anger and hatred and redeem herself.
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Rey's light saber would have still been warm not frozen in the snow. So the amount of literal force required to to the pull was less than the Luke pull even though it was further away.
Rey's light saber would have still been warm not frozen in the snow. So the amount of literal force required to to the pull was less than the Luke pull even though it was further away.
I've always thought that the whole Lightsaber in the snow thing was heavily rooted in Authorian legend, especially I TFA.
Kylo couldn't pull the light saber out of the snow, which kind of shows that he wasn't worthy of a place within the Force, whereas Rey managed to pull it out, literally becoming the Queen in the movie.
With Luke he managed to pull it out though he was relatively untrained because of what his destiny was, which was to become the King.
Baby
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