2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I feel like I have to say this every damn day

30 for a goaltender is not old.

No, but if the contract is 4+ years, age becomes a major factor.
Many goalies regress before the age of 30. See Murray and Holtby.
Brian Elliott wasn't much older when he came to the Flames. Hiller fell apart at 32. Kipper retired at 35. Even Quick fell off a cliff in terms of performance around 31.

Most goalies who remain effective after the age of 34 were already elite by the time they were 25. Markstrom doesn't fit into this category.
There are exceptions like Tim Thomas, but those are rare.

And by the way, any goalie over 30 is not the "goalie of the future".

[Niemo]

[Ryan to Colorado for a 4th/3rd
Gaudreau, 2nd to St. Louis for Schwartz, Parayko, 1st(or Klim Kostim)
Monahan, 1st to Dallas for Seguin, 3rd
2nd to Columbus for Josh Anderson
sign Holtby 3M x 2 yrs]

Derek Ryan should get a late 2nd from a Western Conf. team or a 3rd at least from an Eastern team. He has decent value from a strong team.
Gaudreau should return more quality than quantity. Schwartz can't stay healthy and Kostim is nothing special.

Monahan + 1st should return better than a declining and expensive Seguin - I'd rather have a young Laine.
2nd for Anderson I'm game!
Holtby at that contract I'd be good with too if Markstrom costs more than 5.5MM for 5 years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

No, but if the contract is 4+ years, age becomes a major factor.
Many goalies regress before the age of 30. See Murray and Holtby.
Brian Elliott wasn't much older when he came to the Flames. Hiller fell apart at 32. Kipper retired at 35. Even Quick fell off a cliff in terms of performance around 31.

Most goalies who remain effective after the age of 34 were already elite by the time they were 25. Markstrom doesn't fit into this category.
There are exceptions like Tim Thomas, but those are rare.

And by the way, any goalie over 30 is not the "goalie of the future".[/b]

Kipper was 30 when the Flames gave him his big contract, after 4 years of good play on a cheap contract. That’s pretty much the Markstrom timeline. He’s been a good goalie since 2016.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Kipper was 30 when the Flames gave him his big contract, after 4 years of good play on a cheap contract. That’s pretty much the Markstrom timeline. He’s been a good goalie since 2016.

3 of Kipper's last 5 years were quite poor performance-wise (90/3%. 90/6$. 88.2%). Kipper's save percentage after the age of 30 was only around 90.9%.

He was an elite goalie, Markstrom is not. And even he had a pretty iffy final contract. Plus his contract had a lower cap-hit because of the retirement structure.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

3 of Kipper's last 5 years were quite poor performance-wise (90/3%. 90/6$. 88.2%). Kipper's save percentage after the age of 30 was only around 90.9%.

He was an elite goalie, Markstrom is not. And even he had a pretty iffy final contract. Plus his contract had a lower cap-hit because of the retirement structure.

Yeah, better just accept our cheap and known poor goaltending that falls apart in important games.

That's the route to success!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

3 of Kipper's last 5 years were quite poor performance-wise (90/3%. 90/6$. 88.2%). Kipper's save percentage after the age of 30 was only around 90.9%.

He was an elite goalie, Markstrom is not. And even he had a pretty iffy final contract. Plus his contract had a lower cap-hit because of the retirement structure.

Kipper played for a declining team defensively. He also played those years in the post lockout goal boom.

Markstrom may or may not be elite but he’s a step up. And he can be signed to a medium term, not a long term. And has been pointed out, his numbers may be partly due to the fact he played on a bad team.

[Roof-Daddy]

Talking about Markstrom's career save % is pointless. He's just come into his own over the last 3-4 seasons despite being in the league for nearly a decade, and to top it off, those same last 3-4 seasons he's been playing on a rebuilding bottom 5 team in the NHL and not had a ton of help in front of him.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Talking about Markstrom's career save % is pointless. He's just come into his own over the last 3-4 seasons despite being in the league for nearly a decade, and to top it off, those same last 3-4 seasons he's been playing on a rebuilding bottom 5 team in the NHL and not had a ton of help in front of him.

Well when the Flames acquired Elliott, he had a fantastic save percentage for the 2-3 years preceding his arrival on the Flames.

But his career save percentage wasn't anything spectacular.
It didn't take long for him to regress back to, or even below, the mean.
Albeit, he had good stats on St. Louis, while Markstrom has been playing on an iffy Vancouver team.

My point is that Markstrom doesn't have a long track record of success. So it's a big gamble to assume that he can carry his solid play for another 4, 5, or even 6 years, especially when you take age into account.
Anyways, I think I've made it clear that I'm not on the Markstrom train. Mostly for contract and cap reasons.
I would just rather have the Flames acquire a young goalie, even if it cost more.

[Bingo]

It's an interesting debate.

I'd be careful on term and dollars, but Markstrom is top ten (or close) in a lot of categories over the past three years.

Save Percentage - Markstrom 14th, but Talbot is 13th (one great, one terrible, one good season)

GSAA/60 - Markstrom 14th, but Talbot is 12th

HD Shots vs /60 - Markstrom the 20th most difficult workload at 8.7/60. Rittich the 39th most difficult, Talbot the 4th easiest (goalies to play 750 minutes in three years)

HDSV% - Markstrom 9th. Rittich 11th. Talbot 44th

MDSV% - Markstrom 29th. Talbot 21st, Rittich 57th.

LDSV% - Markstrom 32nd. Talbot 10th. Rittich 44th.

Seems like he has the harder workload and is better in stopping the tough shots, but seems to have a leg up on Rittich when it comes to the mental game to keep the easy and mid range shots at bay to a larger degree.

But not a huge leg up on what Calgary already has though.

However I'd point to Talbot's HDSV% as the issue for me. He gets set expertly, but won't have an answer to a guy that can snipe. That can only get you so far.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by Niemo

[Ryan to Colorado for a 4th/3rd
Gaudreau, 2nd to St. Louis for Schwartz, Parayko, 1st(or Klim Kostim)
Monahan, 1st to Dallas for Seguin, 3rd
2nd to Columbus for Josh Anderson
sign Holtby 3M x 2 yrs]

Derek Ryan should get a late 2nd from a Western Conf. team or a 3rd at least from an Eastern team. He has decent value from a strong team.
Gaudreau should return more quality than quantity. Schwartz can't stay healthy and Kostim is nothing special.

Monahan + 1st should return better than a declining and expensive Seguin - I'd rather have a young Laine.
2nd for Anderson I'm game!
Holtby at that contract I'd be good with too if Markstrom costs more than 5.5MM for 5 years.

St Louis calls you an idiot, slams the phone down and blocks your number.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Dan403

St Louis calls you an idiot, slams the phone down and blocks your number.

So does Winnipeg. Wtf is this.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Dan403

St Louis calls you an idiot, slams the phone down and blocks your number.

For being too.... bold?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

So does Winnipeg. Wtf is this.

You wouldn't trade Laine for Monahan and a 1st?

lol

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You wouldn't trade Laine for Monahan and a 1st?

lol

You seriously need an answer?

[Icon]

Man I hope we get some actual rumors soon.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Icon

Man I hope we get some actual rumors soon.

Two weeks away from the draft. Things will start picking up, but we have had a decent number of rumour.

- Flames will be in on Hall
- Flames will be in on Markstrom
- Flames have talked to ARZ about OEL and Kuemper
- Flames have talked to PIT about Murray
- Hanifin may be available in a trade

[Icon]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Two weeks away from the draft. Things will start picking up, but we have had a decent number of rumour.

- Flames will be in on Hall
- Flames will be in on Markstrom
- Flames have talked to ARZ about OEL and Kuemper
- Flames have talked to PIT about Murray
- Hanifin may be available in a trade

Yeah I know, just commenting on the status of this thread :P

[Bingo]

I'm hoping the time that has passed since some of these rumours started bouncing around is a sign that they were either dead wrong, or at very least not all that serious.

Happy the Flames still have their first round pick and don't have a $8M 30 year old defenseman.

Having said that ... as Bob McKenzie used to point out. Fans shouldn't assume that rumours that don't come true weren't bonafide rumours. Plus a rumour doesn't mean there was ever intent on both sides. Arizona could be talking to teams about expensive assets that they want to move, but Calgary wasn't interested etc. Would make the rumour true, but the chances of happening low.

[Toonage]

It'll be like 2018. Hear a bit about a deal with a club that gets our attention, things get quiet, then wham! Draft day deal that was more or less what was reported a few days prior.

So, yeah. OEL huh.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Two weeks away from the draft. Things will start picking up, but we have had a decent number of rumour.

- Flames will be in on Hall
- Flames will be in on Markstrom
- Flames have talked to ARZ about OEL and Kuemper
- Flames have talked to PIT about Murray
- Hanifin may be available in a trade

I thought the verbiage used in regards to Hanifin was "He's as good as gone "