Discussing the fourth line and its personnel

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Neal?

He has no place in a pipedream lineup.

He gets traded with salary retained.

[Reggie Dunlop]

How ready is Glenn Gawdin to step up as a Hathaway replacement?

[getoverit]

Ryan $3+M should be on the 3rd line. Janko is expendable. We need a 4th line centre

[TheScorpion]

To be honest, the Ryan line was absolutely the third line down the stretch. I'm just calling them the fourth line for easy identification.

[Poe969]

This team badly needs a Reeves type player. Someone who puts the fear of God in the other team but can still play hockey. If they could somehow do a Neal for Reeves deal, that would be amazing.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

How ready is Glenn Gawdin to step up as a Hathaway replacement?

0% ready.

[DoubleK]

I don't get all the Hathaway hate. He's deserved a modest raise and he should get it from the Flames. The team doesn't have a pile of righties on the roster, so there's that too.

There are far worse things Tre could spend his money on. . .

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I don't get all the Hathaway hate. He's deserved a modest raise and he should get it from the Flames. The team doesn't have a pile of righties on the roster, so there's that too.

There are far worse things Tre could spend his money on. . .

The problem is that

1) He's a UFA. You can't lowball a UFA on July 1 and chances are he is a July 1 FA, not a Sept 15 FA. Look no further than the deal Matt Martin signed in Toronto in 2016 for an idea of the risk involved... that would not be a "modest" raise.

2) He had 5 goals in his first 99 games on 5.0% shooting and 11 goals in the 76 he logged last season on 14.3% shooting. Which Hathaway do you expect next season? Which Hathaway do you expect to pay for?

3) While he was a solid piece of a great fourth line, two of those players on that line realistically belonged on a third line. Mangiapane arguably even belong on a 2nd line with how well he played towards the end of the season. Hathaway's weaknesses would be far more pronounced if he were on a 4th line with, say, Neal and Jankowski.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Fire

0% ready.

I dunno. A somewhat close facsimile organizationally with similar pedigree. Hathaway was a work in progress himself.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

How ready is Glenn Gawdin to step up as a Hathaway replacement?

He probably needs at least another year, and projects as more of a Frolik-y player than a Hathaway type.

[The Cobra]

In a cap world, you can't be signing 4th liners to long term contracts, they rarely work out.

4th liners need to be cheap, young players, who provide energy with some potential to get better. Some will move up the chain, some will be discarded once they get too expensive. But they shouldn't be tied up long term.

[Bingo]

I've argued for Hathaway all season ...

Great mix of crustiness and penalty kill savvy that the Flames made good use of. But you simply can't let your fourth line get away from you financially. Ryan has a price tag but he's not a fourth liner, he plays up the roster all the time.

But guys like Hathaway can't triple their salary or you start putting pressure on the top of the roster.

Don't blame him for going for a pay day though, but they need to heed the Bouma example on this one (limited roll / high shooting percentage)

[CN10]

I think the Flames would like to keep Hathaway, but I also think Treliving learned a valuable lesson with Bouma. I expect they will tender him a fair offer (similar to Czarnik's 2 @ $1.25M) but probably aren't and shouldn't be willing to go much beyond that. If Hathaway finds a better offer out there from another team I think we as fans should be happy for him to take it as he's been a good player for his role in his time with the Flames (just not if that offer is from Edmonton or Vancouver).

For Mangiapane, I expect the player will want to keep the deal short as he's likely looking to prove he is a third liner or more over the course of the deal. Something like 1 @ 850k, 2 @ 1M would be a prudent move for him as he works is way up the lineup. If the Flames think his final half of the year and playoffs were just a taste of things to come they should try to get him for three years (maybe @ 1.25M) but I don't think the player will sign a longer than a two year deal.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Freeway

He probably needs at least another year, and projects as more of a Frolik-y player than a Hathaway type.

Thanks.

It's important to have in-house solutions for depth positions. Going the UFA route often involves overpayment.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

To be honest, the Ryan line was absolutely the third line down the stretch. I'm just calling them the fourth line for easy identification.

This. Mangiapane is too good to play on the fourth line? Fine, play him on the third line... with Derek Ryan and Garnet Hathaway.

[Flash Walken]

That's weird.

If hathaway - ryan - mangiapane was the third line, then what line was neal/czar - janko - bennett?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

That's weird.

If hathaway - ryan - mangiapane was the third line, then what line was neal/czar - janko - bennett?

Fourth. And Neal/Jankowski earned the demotion.