[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Nope. You can't add four players for two.

in
Ryan - 38 points
Lindholm - 44 points
Neal - 44 points
Hanifin - 32 points

out
Ferland - 40 points
Hamilton - 44 points
Stajan - 12 points
Brouwer - 22 points

net gain: 40 points

...*proceeds to leave out Czarnik.

Right, so no one replaces Brouwer and Stajan lol? They're gone cause whoever fills in will likely be better.

4th line changes with fringe players are pretty wash-worthy which is why I left it out. You're really penny and diming it there since we don't know who'll be filling in and the difference is going to be minimal. And Czarnik probably ends up being a net gain on Brouwer in a likelihood. Whoever gets Stajan's ice time probably comes close to his point total.

Thanks for coming out and trying though, nelly.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

...*proceeds to leave out Czarnik.

Right, so no one replaces Brouwer and Stajan lol? They're gone cause whoever fills in will likely be better.

4th line changes with fringe players are pretty wash-worthy which is why I left it out. You're really penny and diming it there since we don't know who'll be filling in and the difference is going to be minimal. And Czarnik probably ends up being a net gain on Brouwer in a likelihood. Whoever gets Stajan's ice time probably comes close to his point total.

Thanks for coming out and trying though, nelly.

Ryan is taking Stajan's center role. You can argue 3C/4C but still.

Brouwer and Ferland are the out going RW, while Neal and Lindholm are the incoming RW.

So your net gain includes the points from four incoming players but only two outgoing? Your logic makes no sense.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Ryan is taking Stajan's center role. You can argue 3C/4C but still.

Brouwer and Ferland are the out going RW, while Neal and Lindholm are the incoming RW.

So your net gain includes the points from four incoming players but only two outgoing? Your logic makes no sense.

Because we didn't trade anything for Ryan and Neal. 2 additions that came without subtractions.

The fringe moves weren't listed because they're fringe moves. That's why I left out Czarnik, Brouwer and Stajan. I would if any one of them was bringing 40 points to the table but they don't.

Pretty sound logic until you skewed it with your argument.

[Oling_Roachinen]

There's only a certain amount of offensive opportunities. For example, there's a limited amount of PP time.

If Hamilton's 2:40, Ferland's 1:51 and Brouwer's 1:14 minutes of PP time are being replaced by the external guys, something has to give. Lindholm had 2:37 of PP time, 2:27 for Neal, 2:01 for Ryan and 1:48 for Hanifin. They're getting a lot less PP time or past season Flames are getting a lot less ice-time.

If Ryan, for example, isn't seeing the PP with the Flames, then he'll struggle to get 30 points.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Because we didn't trade anything for Ryan and Neal. 2 additions that came without subtractions.

The fringe moves weren't listed because they're fringe moves. That's why I left out Czarnik, Brouwer and Stajan. I would if any one of them was bringing 40 points to the table but they don't.

Pretty sound logic until you skewed it with your argument.

With a finite number of roster positions available and knowing that you can't add players to a lineup without taking players out, I think the skewed logic is looking at a net gain with a unequal number of players involved. Especially when the players left out play the same position as the ones coming in...

[Itse]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

With a finite number of roster positions available and knowing that you can't add players to a lineup without taking players out, I think the skewed logic is looking at a net gain with a unequal number of players involved. Especially when the players left out play the same position as the ones coming in...

Exactly.

These are the Flames forwards with 50+ GP last year, ordered by points.

Gaudreau 84 pts
Monahan 64 pts
Tkachuk 49 pts
Backlund 45 pts
Out: Ferland 40 pts
Bennett 26 pts
Jankowski 25 pts
Frolik 25 pts
Out: Brouwer 22 pts
Hathaway 13 pts
Lazar 12 pts
Out: Stajan 12 pts

And this is the top 12 in points we have signed now.

Gaudreau 84 pts
Monahan 64 pts
Tkachuk 49 pts
Backlund 45 pts
In: Neal 44 pts
In: Lindholm 44 pts.
In: Ryan 38 pts
Bennett 26 pts
Jankowski 25 pts
Frolik 25 pts
Hathaway 13 pts
Lazar 12 pts


Out Ferland, Brouwer and Stajan, in Neal, Lindholm and Ryan. Tthree forwards in, three forwards out. It's pretty obvious if you want to do points comparisons, those are the guys you include.

(At this point Czarnik is essentially a prospect competing for the last spots with Hathaway, Lazar, Foo, Klimchuk, Dubé, Mangiapane etc.)

[SportsJunky]

Interesting read at The Athletic yesterday about Darryl Belfry and his performance coaching in the off-season. He is regarded as one of the best performance coaches in hockey. He works with a lot of stars like Crosby, P. Kane, Tavares, etc.

Anyway, one of the players that Belfry singled out in the article is Noah Hanifin. He praised the improvements and adjustments made last year by Hanifin.

Like Auston Matthews, the continued reinvention of shot. This year we’ve taken it to a complete other level again. He does a great job of really investing in adding pieces to his game.
I would say another guy we had a lot of success with this year was Noah Hanifin. I thought he made massive steps in the right direction in looking to add pieces and elements to his game. I thought those two guys did really good.

https://theathletic.com/476346/2018/...r-development/

[Bingo]

Interesting to see the THN Pool Guide projections for the two defensemen in the deal.

Hamilton:
20 goals 33 Assists 53 points (career highs in goals and points)

Hanifin:
12 goals 33 Assists 45 points (career highs in goals, assists and points)

And only 8 points apart.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Interesting to see the THN Pool Guide projections for the two defensemen in the deal.

Hamilton:
20 goals 33 Assists 53 points (career highs in goals and points)

Hanifin:
12 goals 33 Assists 45 points (career highs in goals, assists and points)

And only 8 points apart.

I learned yesterday that 8 points = $2mil in additional salary.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I learned yesterday that 8 points = $2mil in additional salary.

It's also the difference between elite and merely a tap-in specialist.

[Nelson]

I'm really excited to see what Hanifin has to offer. I think we're going to love having him. 45 points would be awesome. To me, I think this means PP time and I think he could play on PP2.

PP1 could be Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm and Giordano
PP2 could be Bennett, Backlund, Neal, Czarnik and Hanifin

I'm sure it's controversial not to have Neal on PP1, but I think a RHS is important to have on the PP.

The alignments for PP1 could be:
1: Tkachuk (L)
3: Gaudreau (L), Monahan (L), Lindholm (R)
1: Giordano (L)
To me, Tkachuk needs to be down low.

The alignment for PP2 could be:
1: Bennett (L)
3: Neal (L), Backlund (L), Czarnik (R)
1: Hanifin (L)
Here, I was really having a hard time choosing between Bennett and Jankowski. Bennett plays well down low so I chose him even though Jankowski has a wicked shot. In part, this is because Neal already has a wicked shot.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I'm sure it's controversial not to have Neal on PP1, but I think a RHS is important to have on the PP.

The alignments for PP1 could be:
1: Tkachuk (L)
3: Gaudreau (L), Monahan (L), Lindholm (R)
1: Giordano (L)
To me, Tkachuk needs to be down low.

The alignment for PP2 could be:
1: Bennett (L)
3: Neal (L), Backlund (L), Czarnik (R)
1: Hanifin (L)
Here, I was really having a hard time choosing between Bennett and Jankowski. Bennett plays well down low so I chose him even though Jankowski has a wicked shot. In part, this is because Neal already has a wicked shot.

Gaudreau should be on the right half wall. Lindholm on the left in your scenario. Also Neal on the right for PP2 and Czarnik on the left.

The RH/LH shots need to be this way so one timers can happen without the puck needing to cross the player's body. Gulutzan/Cameron did not know this. It also increases the odds you're on the forehand when passing back to the D. It's why Ovechkin sits in his office on the left of the PP.

I like Tkachuk down low as well.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Gaudreau should be on the right half wall. Lindholm on the left in your scenario. Also Neal on the right for PP2 and Czarnik on the left.

The RH/LH shots need to be this way so one timers can happen without the puck needing to cross the player's body. Gulutzan/Cameron did not know this. It also increases the odds you're on the forehand when passing back to the D. It's why Ovechkin sits in his office on the left of the PP.

I like Tkachuk down low as well.

That is a very good point. I was just thinking about what Geoff Ward did with New Jersey's power play last year and he might implement the same strategy in Calgary this year.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Q:

Who plays more career games in the NHL?

Adam Fox or Brandon Hickey?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Q:

Who plays more career games in the NHL?

Adam Fox or Brandon Hickey?

Tim Erixon

[Poe969]

You spelt Tom wrong

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Gaudreau should be on the right half wall. Lindholm on the left in your scenario. Also Neal on the right for PP2 and Czarnik on the left.

The RH/LH shots need to be this way so one timers can happen without the puck needing to cross the player's body. Gulutzan/Cameron did not know this. It also increases the odds you're on the forehand when passing back to the D. It's why Ovechkin sits in his office on the left of the PP.

I like Tkachuk down low as well.

I like the player choices and I’m excited that it feels like the flames have plenty of options up front to choose from to fill out two powerplay units. Guys like Brodie, Andersson, Stone, Jankowski, Eat Bread, Frolik, and Foo are still good options that could work on the powerplay if injuries happen or if the powerplay needs a different look.

I’m curious to see lindholm’s utilization on the powerplay. From watching highlights of him over the last season, it seems like he is used as a net-front presence/down-low guy just like Tkachuk. He seems really good at screens at deflecting pucks as well. It was mentioned using Lindholm on his off-wing for one timers... not sure how good his one-timer is but it might just be an opportunity he hasn’t had yet. If not, it might be better to have Czarnik on the top unit if his shot is better. Either way, it’s nice to have added more skill to the top six.


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[Nelson]

Czarnik on PP1 definitely seems possible since I’ve heard Flames personnel call him a bit of a PP wizard.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Q:

Who plays more career games in the NHL?

Adam Fox or Brandon Hickey?

Fox
At this point I view Hickey as a pretty marginal prospect.

[Gaskal]

I do find it interesting that we took 3 of Carolina's top 10 possession players last season. Granted that they did it while being given the high ground, but hey that's exactly what you want out of them while gifting those offensive zone starts.

3.) Derek Ryan - OZS: 66% - 61.1 CF%
7.) Noah Hanifin - OZS: 67% - 59.5 CF%
10.) Elias Lindholm - OZS: 60% - 56.4 CF%