Let's talk 'Core'

[Flash Walken]

Mostly because I'm tired of seeing the rumours thread derailed into a multitude of derailments, let's have a discussion about 'Core' group players.

What's the definition of a 'core' group?

What are some examples of it from successful and unsuccessful team?

Let's apply those answers to the Calgary Flames. CliffFletcher is not allowed to shake his fist while mumbling to himself about how the definition of a franchise player has changed. This isn't the discussion for that, so take it elsewhere.

'Core Player' as defined by Flash Walken is a player who likely has few peers in the league, has demonstrated value specifically to the Flames Organization and who has specific characteristics that can't be easily replaced in the trade market or free agency.

Based on that, Flash Walken's core looks like this:

Gaudreau
Brodie
Bennett

Thoughts?

[dissentowner]

Add Hamilton and Monahan for me.

[killer_carlson]

I think Hamilton's size and skating combination fits within your definition as well.

[Gaudfather]

Core player for me is any player considered "not available for trade" by management given the objective of building a real Stanley Cup contender in the next 3-4 years.

So in addition to Brodie, Gaudreau and Bennett, I would have to add Monahan, Hamilton and Gio. Those six are the true core of this franchise now.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I would extend the definition a bit, players signed long-term like Giordano and Hamilton, signed until 2022 and 2021, respectively, would make it into my definition as the team certainly expects them to be part of the team moving forward.

Brodie
Gaudreau
Monahan
Giordano
Bennett
Hamilton

[MarkGio]

To me, the Flames most important assets are:

Gaudreau
Bennett
Brodie
Gillies
Hamilton
Monahan
1st rounder

That being said, if Dallas offered Seguin, Benn, and Klinberg at 50% retained for any one of these pieces Id do it. Nothing is untouchable.

[Mass_nerder]

Gaudreau
Brodie
Bennett
Hamilton
Monahan

In that order. I think monahan would be bumped in favor of Mathews if we lucked out in the draft lottery.

[Nehkara]

Flames Core:

Gaudreau
Monahan
Bennett
Brodie
Giordano

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Core players to me are guys you want to build around.

Gaudreau-Bennett-????
Ferland-Monahan-Frolik
Bouma-Backlund-????

That's our core up front IMO. The 3rd line ???? is maybe filled by Colborne, Jankowski, Poirier, Klimchuk, Agostino, etc.

Gio-Brodie-Hamilton is the core defense at the moment.

This draft probably adds one more core forward or d-man. We'll need another from prospects probably. Maybe one more from trade. Pretty good core IMO.

There are 3 big questions:
1) Who is our goalie?
- Maybe Gillies long term, short term is huge question mark
2) Who plays 1st line RW?
- Maybe Laine, Puljujarvi, Tkachuk or Nylander
- Maybe through trade
- Maybe through UFA like Ladd/Lucic/Okposo/Stamkos/Eriksson)
3) Who fills out the top 4 defense?
- Maybe Chychrun, Juolevi, Sergachev
- Maybe Kylington, Andersson, Kulak, Hickey, Wotherspoon
- Maybe through trade like Hamonic

We're in the best spot we've been in decades in terms of having roles filled for the long term.

[hockey.modern]

Adding to our established core, I hope we can see Jon Gillies and whoever we pick this year in the draft added to the core at one point. This what I see our lines for our core:

Gaudreau-Bennett-X
X-Monahan-2016 1st?
X-X-X
X-X-X

Brodie-Hamilton
Giordano-2016 1st?
X-X

Gillies
X

[Flash Walken]

I should have titled this thread "everyone list your favourite players"

[DynastyEra]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Mostly because I'm tired of seeing the rumours thread derailed into a multitude of derailments, let's have a discussion about 'Core' group players.

What's the definition of a 'core' group?

What are some examples of it from successful and unsuccessful team?

Let's apply those answers to the Calgary Flames. CliffFletcher is not allowed to shake his fist while mumbling to himself about how the definition of a franchise player has changed. This isn't the discussion for that, so take it elsewhere.

'Core Player' as defined by Flash Walken is a player who likely has few peers in the league, has demonstrated value specifically to the Flames Organization and who has specific characteristics that can't be easily replaced in the trade market or free agency.

Based on that, Flash Walken's core looks like this:

Gaudreau
Brodie
Bennett

Thoughts?

I think you're bang on, the term specific characteristics definitely resonates with me. We all know Monahan's value goes beyond just what's on the scoresheet, but his play type is a variety that can be replaced. Traded for, signed for..he wouldn't be cheap to obtain but he is a trade-able asset that can be moved under the right circumstances.
This shouldn't understate his value to this franchise though, but in speaking strictly "core" I would agree with the 3 you've listed.

Hamilton only enters as "core" for most people, because of his contract. Same way Bouwmeester did.

For me though, I love that those 3 guys were drafted by the Flames. I think that goes a long way for loyalty and knowing nothing but the Flaming C on the chest. Could mark a turn around with our poor drafting over the years. Helps that Bennett was the highest ever draft pick in franchise history.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I should have titled this thread "everyone list your favourite players"

Well in that case I'd definitely add Backlund. He's playing fantastic.

[dissentowner]

See, I did not include Gio in my core because my definition of the core is the guys you build around to end up with a SC and I am not saying Gio can't still be effective when that time comes but if let's say Carolina offered us Justin Faulk for him I would fly out to Calgary and drive Gio to the airport myself. I guess that was a poor example as Carolina is not a contender right now. My point was if you can trade Gio for another young core piece D man you do it.

[GranteedEV]

core
kôr/Submit
noun
1.
the tough central part of various fruits, containing the seeds.
"quarter the pears, remove the cores then slice again into wedges"

verb
1.
remove the tough central part and seeds from (a fruit).
"peel and core the pears"

See, I did not include Gio in my core because my definition of the core is the guys you build around to end up with a SC and I am not saying Gio can't still be effective when that time comes but if let's say Carolina offered us Justin Faulk for him I would fly out to Calgary and drive Gio to the airport myself. I guess that was a poor example as Carolina is not a contender right now. My point was if you can trade Gio for another young core piece D man you do it.

So Hossa is/was not a core piece for the Blackhawks because he's old?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Going by Flash's definition, there are only 2 players currently on the Flames that cannot be replaced.

T.J. Brodie
Johnny Gaudreau

end of list.

I like a LOT of other players, and I would consider them part of a winning team, but if we're talking specific skills that can't be replaced, those are your two guys.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Going by Flash's definition, there are only 2 players currently on the Flames that cannot be replaced.

T.J. Brodie
Johnny Gaudreau

end of list.

I like a LOT of other players, and I would consider them part of a winning team, but if we're talking specific skills that can't be replaced, those are your two guys.

By such a strict definition I would definitely agree.
I think in a few years, Bennett could be included in along Brodie and Gaudreau though.

[Macho0978]

Gaudreau
Bennett
Monahan
Hamilton
Brodie
Giordano

This is our core IMO. I think when you do a comparison around the league what seems to happen when comparing core players and teams in general and why lots of team some to get overrated is now vs potential. Also how many core players you have, how good they are and the mix of talents and positions they have. For me this is why we are struggling. IMO Bennett, Monahan and Hamilton are "Potential Elite Core Players" and Gio, Brodie and Gaudreau are "Elite Core Players" or close too.

If you look at Chicago during their cup seasons. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith and Seabrooke were all there and all were good now and it wasn't based on potential.

I love Bennett but he is a player that can go 5+ games without getting a point and really right now is a 40 point guy. Monahan and Hamilton still have potential to improve but right now they aren't Elite

Another thing that happens when evaluating core is players getting overrated due to where they were drafted. This is why the Media always call for the oilers to eventually explode and until they got Mcdavid I never felt it would ever happen. I think the reason for this is guys like Eberle Hall and Nuge are overrated. I also think their core is overrated as they have no 2 way star players and their position balance is awful. All their talent is up front and a lot on the wing. They have failed in recent years to make the transition because of overrating "potential" especially on d. Nurse could be years away from being a star dman and guys like Schultz got overrated

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

By such a strict definition I would definitely agree.
I think in a few years, Bennett could be included in along Brodie and Gaudreau though.

I sure hope so. There's lots of reason for optimism, but honestly this year has beaten most of it out of me. Until Bennett proves he's that guy I consider him a very good player but not irreplaceable.

Kinda the way I viewed Gaudreau last year too.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I should have titled this thread "everyone list your favourite players"

Your mistake was the thread title.

Should have read: "Listen to me talk about Core" if you didn't want differing opinions on what core players are.