Canada plans to buy NEW Fighter Jets - F-35 reported chosen

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by speede5

Similar to operate doesn't mean you don't need all new equipment. A majority of ground support equipment is unique to these types af aircraft. Flight simulators, ground school training, flight manuals, and on and on are all unique. DND has an entire engineering support staff for each aircraft type.

Just because they look and act similar does not mean there is a cost savings.

They may look similar but its like saying a 1969 Camaro and a 2010 Camaro are the same car.

Sure, fair comment. The article I quoted was more about operating the aircraft than the other aspects.

[calculoso]

Liberals cite economic benefits after paying $33M to stay in F-35 program

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liber...gram-1.3003596

OTTAWA - The Liberal government is pointing to the potential economic benefits to explain why it quietly paid nearly $33 million last month to help develop the F-35 stealth fighter.

The Liberals promised during the last election campaign not to buy the F-35, but made the payment anyway to keep Canada as one of nine partner countries in the program

Canada has spent more than $311 million to develop the F-35 since 1997. An official in Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan's office says that participation has resulted in more than $800 million in work for Canadian companies.
...
Those consultations are due to wrap up on Friday, with the government announcing its plans for replacing Canada's aging CF-18 fighter jet fleet in the fall.

[burn_this_city]

I still think they hold their nose and buy the F-35. The helicopter fiasco in the 90s dogged the party for more than a decade. They probably don't want to repeat that stupidity.

[Regorium]

Ridiculous that such blatant lies can be said on the campaign trail.

I guess the blame falls more on the people that believe those lies rather than the politicians themselves.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'll just re-iterate that I believe that the F-35 is going to be the best option for this country going forward, especially with how our procurement strategy for the military (doesn't) works.

It looks like the Liberals weren't really honest about anything on the campaign trail. Triple the deficit, we're not going to have anything to do with the F-35 but we're going to stay in the program, etc etc.

[btimbit]

Just buy the damn thing, if they don't now it's bad for the aviation economy here and their stopgap idea is crap anyway.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Ridiculous that such blatant lies can be said on the campaign trail.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It looks like the Liberals weren't really honest about anything on the campaign trail. [...] we're not going to have anything to do with the F-35 but we're going to stay in the program, etc etc.

Where have they stated that they are now going to purchase the F-35 and which part of their platform stated that they would have nothing at all to do with the F-35 Program?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Addick

Where have they stated that they are now going to purchase the F-35 and which part of their platform stated that they would have nothing at all to do with the F-35 Program?

This pretty much guarantees that the F-35 will have access to any bid program, and with the amount of dollars spent on staying in the development program and the industries here based around the F-35 its highly unlikely that they don't give it a leg up in any kind of competition.

Also, the whole blathering by the government doesn't work looks foolish now that countries are starting to accept their first deliveries of the A variant with is what the CF-35 is.

I believe that Israel is working up their first operational squadron.

[Azure]

Lots of reports are coming out saying they have fixed the major problems with the F-35.

At this point it would be stupid not to buy it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

Lots of reports are coming out saying they have fixed the major problems with the F-35.

At this point it would be stupid not to buy it.

Reports by who? Lockheed Martin?

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Addick

Where have they stated that they are now going to purchase the F-35 and which part of their platform stated that they would have nothing at all to do with the F-35 Program?

This part:

https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/f-35/

Right off their campaign webpage.

We will not buy the F-35 stealth fighter-bomber.

And only a few months later, quietly make a $33Million payment to stay part of the program.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Reports by who? Lockheed Martin?

Israel has cleared the F-35a Adir and are taking first delivery of their active squadron in December.

Italy has signed off on the F-35 and are moving to the delivery stage as well.

The US airforce is activating the f-35 and starting to move them from test to deployable.

US Airforce first operational squadron completes its IOC testing

http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...orce/87640282/

Airforces are starting to sign off on the A and looking at deliveries.

I don't know what the status of the Carrier and Marine versions are, but they're pretty irrelevant to Canada

[btimbit]

Wasn't it just the Marine version that had the issues anyway?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Wasn't it just the Marine version that had the issues anyway?

They all had some pretty big problems, I haven't been following that closely lately, but the marine problems were with the engines and things like lightnight strike problems, that all had software problems as well.

But this plane is now being rolled out, the head of the US airforce talked about their version being close to ready to deploy as operational.

[Fuzz]

That's actually good news then. Canada should step back for a year and see how these perform operationally before committing to anything. I'm willing to change my mind on them.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Addick

Where have they stated that they are now going to purchase the F-35 and which part of their platform stated that they would have nothing at all to do with the F-35 Program?

I see where you are going with this. You're saying that we haven't committed to purchasing a fighter, which is different than "We will not buy the F-35 fighter." I see how sneaky you are with adding the "now" wording as well.

You're saying saying that the F-35 program as a manufacturing program is something the Liberals wanted to stay in, but without any commitment to actually purchase the fighter. Man, you are really good at reading in between the lines. Maybe the Liberals should have said specifically what they meant by "We will not buy the F-35 fighter" to educate dumb people like me.

Semantics. Well played. You and Buster should have a semantics-off.

[Azure]

It was inevitable that the problems would be fixed. Say what you want about the American Military Industrial Industry, but they have some pretty smart minds that have solved some pretty complex problems.

The fact that people actually thought a $100 billion dollar plus project would just fail is amusing.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

This part:

https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/f-35/

Right off their campaign webpage.



And only a few months later, quietly make a $33Million payment to stay part of the program.

They stated that they wouldn't buy the F-35 and have still not purchased any F-35s. The $33M was not spent to buy any jets but to instead keep the door open to potential business for our manufacturing sector. Additionally, if the issues with the F-35 are resolved, it provides the Liberals with the opportunity to be responsible, say that they made a mistake and purchase the F-35s if they are the best option.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Yes, I understand that. It's my understanding that in order to "keep the door" open for our manufacturing sector, we actually do have to proceed with purchasing them. I'll have to find the article but I'm sure I read that if we decide to purchase something other than the F-35, the contracts we are currently getting are gone.

Here's one that goes into it:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle28897002/

The contribution would maintain Canada’s membership in the F-35 buyers’ pool. This gives Ottawa the right to buy F-35s at a discount and allows Canadian companies to continue to bid on supply contracts for the plane.

It also says this:

The move raises questions about whether the Liberal government is reconsidering its ban on purchasing the controversial F-35 jet.

I find it a bit amusing to see the government go from "We will not buy the F-35" to "Well, maybe we will". What else in their campaign was BS?

[Azure]

Its not even a hard move to make politically. Come out and say a year ago the F-35 had a lot of problems that have since been resolved. Because they have been resolved it would only make sense to buy them.

People might be mad for a week, but with how much support the Liberals have right now I doubt it makes a dent in their poll support.