2024 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I didn’t say the Jays had a good offseason. I’m saying there wasn’t a lot of these mythical corner OF power bats available .

Pitching depth in FAs was strong this offseason - something the Jays didn’t need

The best UFA hitters all had major flaws and ended up signing effectively 1 year deals

I would have preferred an upgrade on KK and KK being the 4th OF . I just didn’t see a lot out there without massively overpaying . And overpaying can put the team in a bad financial postition to sign vlad and /or Bo

Our minor league system is also very weak , so unless you wanted Tieds traded you aren’t getting anything of real value in the trade market .

Jays have an window, they are well into it. They need to decide should they add necessary pieces or not adding anything of substance.

Its the GM's job to improve the team, I don't see anything this past season that shows this team has improved

Can the core, have rebound seasons (i.e Vladdy, Varsho and Kirk)?

Trading prospects is clearly not an issue, look at what was traded at last year's trade deadline (i.e. for relief pitchers)

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by flambers

Jays have an window, they are well into it.

Frankly, I think they're near the end of it. I don't have much in the way of faith that they'll be able to get extensions on any of the guys that are nearing the end of their arbitration years and we don't have prospects that can come in and backfill for them (or supplement them in the unlikely event that they can sign them to extensions).

Frankly I expect the Jays will be entering a period of extended mediocrity after this season or the next.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Frankly, I think they're near the end of it. I don't have much in the way of faith that they'll be able to get extensions on any of the guys that are nearing the end of their arbitration years and we don't have prospects that can come in and backfill for them (or supplement them in the unlikely event that they can sign them to extensions).

Frankly I expect the Jays will be entering a period of extended mediocrity after this season or the next.

Window aligns with the amount of years they can control Vlad and Bo.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by flambers

Window aligns with the amount of years they can control Vlad and Bo.

Yeah. There were also some great trades/signings in that window. Ie they got Berrios for prospects who didn't pan out, and then re-signed him at a good price.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by flambers

Window aligns with the amount of years they can control Vlad and Bo.

Which I think is two if they're stupid and one if they're not.

I think this year is the last one to really go for it because I don't think they'll be extending either and it would be foolish to commit further resources if you have them under team control for just a single year (and if it's foolish to commit the resources for that single year then it's foolish to keep them and they should be traded).

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

The best UFA hitters ended up signing effectively 1 year deals eh... sounds like something the Jays should have gotten.

Maybe some or all of those hitters didn't want to sign with Toronto?

Bellinger going back to the Cubs was the easiest thing, and there is speculation Chapman wanted to be in the Bay area but was holding out for a bigger deal. When that deal didn't come he just took the Giants offer.

This is what drives me nuts about fans. Always complaining without knowing the full details. "Management should have done this or that...."

Maybe they tried but got shut down. They offered Chapman waaaaaaay more than he ended up getting during the season and he turned them down wanting to test free agency.

1. We know for a fact the Jays went HARD after Ohtani, he said no
2. We know for a fact they kicked tires on Soto, but its a huge risk for only one year of control knowing they are a long shot to extend him
3. We know for a fact they tried to sign Chapman last season and he said no
4. We know they kicked tires on Bellinger, but he was asking for a ridiculous contract that he never got and instead chose to go back to where he had success last season

Other than that who did the Jays miss out on??

They ended up paying too much for IKF and KK because the market cratered later on, and people like to complain about that too.

[Jason14h]

Two things can be true - There weren’t a lot of options available to fill the holes the Jays had and management has dropped the ball on improving the team

They have a very weak farm system , and there were not a lot of corner IF / OF power hitters available that were clear upgrades overall on the players we have

At the deadline lots of players are available for cheaper then right now .

If the different between Jays being a contender and out of playoffs is a 4 WAR OF vs 2-3 WAR KK we have other issues

The teams fortunes hinge on the Starting pitching health and hitting bounce backs . We can plug the corner lack of power hole later if we’re a contender

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This is what drives me nuts about fans. Always complaining without knowing the full details. "Management should have done this or that...."

If "knowing the full details" is prerequired for discussion then every single discussion forum on the planet would have to be shut down.

I see a Jays roster looking worse then it did a year ago, coming off a season that was a boring let down, with clear deficiencies that not only weren't addressed but were in fact effectively doubled-down on... I think the Jays front office did an epic fail this offseason.

But I "don't know the full details" so I guess I have to shut up and just go "rah rah team!".

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Parallex

If "knowing the full details" is prerequired for discussion then every single discussion forum on the planet would have to be shut down.

I see a Jays roster looking worse then it did a year ago, coming off a season that was a boring let down, with clear deficiencies that not only weren't addressed but were in fact effectively doubled-down on... I think the Jays front office did an epic fail this offseason.

But I "don't know the full details" so I guess I have to shut up and just go "rah rah team!".

The issue isn't that you think the roster is flawed, it is. The issue is that you keep using statements like "effectively doubled-down on" when they very clearly didn't and just couldn't land one of the three or four legitimate options this off-season.


The biggest mistake any organization can make in any sport is signing a reactionary contract or making a reactionary trade for a mediocre player because "They needed to do something."

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Two things can be true - There weren’t a lot of options available to fill the holes the Jays had and management has dropped the ball on improving the team

They have a very weak farm system , and there were not a lot of corner IF / OF power hitters available that were clear upgrades overall on the players we have

At the deadline lots of players are available for cheaper then right now .

If the different between Jays being a contender and out of playoffs is a 4 WAR OF vs 2-3 WAR KK we have other issues

The teams fortunes hinge on the Starting pitching health and hitting bounce backs . We can plug the corner lack of power hole later if we’re a contender

Personally I think the Jays are an bubble team, very similar to the Flames

If stuff goes right, they are a wild card (i.e. good pitching, and key players have bounce back seasons, they stay healthy etc)

As for the management, they dropped the ball. (last couple of years)

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

If "knowing the full details" is prerequired for discussion then every single discussion forum on the planet would have to be shut down.

I see a Jays roster looking worse then it did a year ago, coming off a season that was a boring let down, with clear deficiencies that not only weren't addressed but were in fact effectively doubled-down on... I think the Jays front office did an epic fail this offseason.

But I "don't know the full details" so I guess I have to shut up and just go "rah rah team!".

Yeah, why not?

What is bitching about it going to do?

And again, other than Ohtani (who they pulled out all the stops to try and sign), there wasn't a single difference maker on the market who didn't come with boat loads of risk involved.

So people whine about the Jays not doing anything, but can't provide a decent example of what they should have done instead of "nothing"

I'd imagine that if the Jays had forked out a massive contract to Bellinger and he would have turned back into a pumpkin, the same people would be the first in line wanting Atkins head on a stick for giving out such a risky deal.

The Jays need their star players to be star players, and that's where we are at. Vlad, Bo, Springer Kirk....these guys need to lead the way. Bo was the only one who got the job done last year, and even he was lacking. That's the answer, not forking out hundreds of millions of dollars to players like Bellinger and Chapman.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's the answer, not forking out hundreds of millions of dollars to players like Bellinger and Chapman.

Bellinger and Chapman didn't get hundreds of millions of dollars.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The issue is that you keep using statements like "effectively doubled-down on" when they very clearly didn't

They very clearly did. They signed a 1 year older KK, and replaced Chapman's really good D and below average bat with IKF's really good D and even more below average bat. They doubled-down on the whole approach they took to last season.

They're basically just hoping they get lucky at this point.

I mean c'mon if Schneider hadn't have done a Babe Ruth impersonation when he got promoted (which I think we can all agree isn't his true talent level) the Jays would have missed the playoffs altogether.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, why not?

What is bitching about it going to do?

And again, other than Ohtani (who they pulled out all the stops to try and sign), there wasn't a single difference maker on the market who didn't come with boat loads of risk involved.

So people whine about the Jays not doing anything, but can't provide a decent example of what they should have done instead of "nothing"

I'd imagine that if the Jays had forked out a massive contract to Bellinger and he would have turned back into a pumpkin, the same people would be the first in line wanting Atkins head on a stick for giving out such a risky deal.

The Jays need their star players to be star players, and that's where we are at. Vlad, Bo, Springer Kirk....these guys need to lead the way. Bo was the only one who got the job done last year, and even he was lacking. That's the answer, not forking out hundreds of millions of dollars to players like Bellinger and Chapman.

Sorry, its not just fan's that are commenting on this topic

Media are giving poor grades,,,

Below is another example

"Blue Jays disrespected in Opening Day lineup ranking by former MLB GM"

"Opening Day for the 2024 Major League Baseball season is just a few days away and the Blue Jays aren't getting any love from an ex-MLB General Manager."

"George Springer appears to be starting to decline with age (34) ... The Blue Jays finished middle of the pack in runs scored last year and didn’t get better this offseason."

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Parallex

lol. Yeah, you don't want your team making errors... I get what he's saying thou.

I mean a SS doesn't get to a grounder in time because he lacks range or because he shaded to far to the 3B line and the batter pulls up for a single doesn't get tagged with an error but a SS who huffs it or positions himself correctly, leaps to trap the ball on the infield but bobbles it when he pops up to make the throw will (frequently) get tagged with one.

Errors are a stupid stat.

But that's the problem. Leaping plays or ones that are outside the normal routine type plays are never scored errors. They are called infield singles.

It's a dumb argument. Errors are not a useless stat, but they certainly don't show the ability of a player's range and arm etc. There are other numbers for that.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Bellinger and Chapman didn't get hundreds of millions of dollars.



They very clearly did. They signed a 1 year older KK, and replaced Chapman's really good D and below average bat with IKF's really good D and even more below average bat. They doubled-down on the whole approach they took to last season.

They're basically just hoping they get lucky at this point.

I mean c'mon if Schneider hadn't have done a Babe Ruth impersonation when he got promoted (which I think we can all agree isn't his true talent level) the Jays would have missed the playoffs altogether.

That 2nd quote isn't something I wrote anywhere, why is my name attached to it?

The Jays are clearly hoping for pitching and defense to be a strength again, while expecting Vlad, Springer, Kirk and Varsho to improve closer to career norms on offense, which is not a crazy idea.

Chapman turned down $150 million from the Jays, so why even mention him or what he got? It doesn't matter, he wasn't coming back here.

I only bring him up because people keep saying the Jays should have done more without being able to provide a decent example of what exactly they should have done.

What did the Jays offer Bellinger? What did he turn down and instead ended up back with the Cubs? Do you know? I sure don't.

What should the Jays have done different???

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

But that's the problem. Leaping plays or ones that are outside the normal routine type plays are never scored errors. They are called infield singles.

It's the bobbling of the ball that get's it scored an error not the leaping. Error's are a pointless stat... it's just a record of some schmucks opinion of what should have happened.

A guy could position himself poorly and only put in a token effort to get to a ball and he won't be charged an error but a guy who does those things correctly and bobbles the ball will. The result is the same (guy on 1st) but one guy get's punished with a error and the other guy doesn't.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That 2nd quote isn't something I wrote anywhere, why is my name attached to it?

... Because I'm an idiot and copied the wrong quote text.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

... Because I'm an idiot and copied the wrong quote text.

Haha, no worries. I thought I'd lost my mind for a second there.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

What did the Jays offer Bellinger? What did he turn down and instead ended up back with the Cubs? Do you know? I sure don't.

You seem to like coming back to this idea that someone apparently needs to have perfect knowledge in order to talk about anything. I doubt if I was here talking about how Atkins had done a whizbang job of it that you'd be wanting people to cease issuing praise because they don't know everything.

They Jays didn't improve. Folk can say it's reasonable to think that certain bats will have a bounceback... and it is... but it's also reasonable to think that the performances will not be universally better (and that some might even be worse). Think Varsho will improve? You do... I do too actually... I just also think that KK will probably hit worse them he did last year (he had a well above his average year at plate), You think Springer will improve? Not sure I see it he's not as young as he used to be. Chapman didn't hit well and IKF has never hit well... IKF would have to have a really good year for him to be just as below average as Chapman and I'm not sure I buy old man Turner hitting better then Belt last year. And who knows what Vlad will be.

The Jays have basically bet the season on being more lucky then unlucky and I don't like that.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

You seem to like coming back to this idea that someone apparently needs to have perfect knowledge in order to talk about anything. I doubt if I was here talking about how Atkins had done a whizbang job of it that you'd be wanting people to cease issuing praise because they don't know everything.

I'm still waiting for someone claiming the Jays should have done more to improve the offense to show me how they should have done more to improve the offense. That's all.

There wasn't much out there this off season but people keep grading the Jays terribly like they could have done something different.

Offer Ohtani $800 million?
Out bid the Yankees for one year of Soto?

Everything else that was a realistic option (at least we ASSUME it was a realistic option anyways) doesn't really move the needle much without taking on massive amounts of risk.