2019-20 Flames roster / cap - something’s gotta give!

[Vinny01]

We are stuck with Neal in my opinion unless there is another bad contract type trade coming our way. Wouldn’t a Neal buyout result in 8 years of paypack on the cap? We have to hope for a bounce back of some sort.

Frolik is obvious his cap hit needs to be erased from the team. He should be getting shipped at the moment and I have mentioned a swap with him and an expiring contract would be ideal. I would move him ASAP and address the loss with a rental but the $4.3M is crucial to take off the cap.

Stone is another contract that I would love to move but it might be challenging. I was thinking if he and his brother are close is there any way we could convince the Sens to take him back in a deal that sends us Duchene or Dzingel?

Lastly I think the organization needs to decide between Brodie and Hamonic and move one for picks/prospects at the draft. I think the choice is easy to keep Hamonic and cash in on Brodie’s great cap hit and top pairing resurgence. We could likely get the 1st and 2nd for Brodie which would be needed picks.

Dumping Frolik, Stone and Brodie would give the team an additional $12+M of flexibility in the off-season. Should be able to pay Tkachuk, Bennett, Rittich, backup, depth players.

[Fire]

No chance Neal is bought out after one season.

You guys worry too much about RFA salaries, almost always people predict really high salaries, only for Treliving to come in with great deals.

On a side note, it's unlikely Treliving can make a mistake signing a UFA this off-season because he won't have the cap space.

[TheScorpion]

Y'all forget that Smith's salary is coming off the books after this season. Whole lotta dollars tied up there. The Flames should be able to fit under the cap with ease.

If the cap is going up to $83 million, well:

Gaudreau ($6.75) - Monahan ($6.375) - Lindholm ($4.85)
Tkachuk (est. $8) - Backlund ($5.35) - Neal ($5.75)
Bennett (est. $2.25) - Jankowski ($1.675) - Frolik ($4.3)
Czarnik ($1.25) - Ryan ($3.125) - Dube ($778k)
Hathaway (est $950k)

Giordano ($6.75) - Brodie ($4.65)
Hanifin ($4.95) - Hamonic ($3.857)
Valimaki (894k) - Stone ($3.5)
Andersson ($755k)

Rittich (est. $2)
Some backup: $1.5 million

Buyouts: $1.5 million

That all adds up to almost exactly $81.75 million, well below the projected $83 million salary cap, without any other moves made and with reasonable (if not high) re-signing estimates. If they choose to go with Gillies as backup, that saves a further $0.75 million in space.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Y'all forget that Smith's salary is coming off the books after this season.

Most estimates in this thread are not, in fact, forgetting this.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Most estimates in this thread are not, in fact, forgetting this.

But most people are suggesting that the Flames actively need to get rid of someone to get under the cap. This is simply untrue. The Flames can walk into next season with exactly the same roster as they have this year, save for Smith, and still be well short of the cap. There's no real need to trade anyone, except for upgrades.

[Macho0978]

Imo Tre should move frolik and brodie

With Hanifin andersson valimaki and kylington all playing well I'm ok to start next year with the young guys and stone on the bottom pairings. We already have had a big portion of this season with 2 rookies as our 3rd pairing

Gio and hamonic
Hanifin and anderson
Valimaki and stone
Kylington

If you get a good deal for Brodie you could dump czarnik and keep frolik if you can't move him.

Watching the growth from tkachuk and lindholm this year from last. Why can't valimaki andersson kylington and even hanifin all get better next year than they are now? Our cap is as good as any team in NHL for 3 years. People need to relax bt always does well in these situations

[DeluxeMoustache]

Interesting opinions on Rittich.

Reportedly Tre has approached his agent but his camp prefer to let Rittich’s work play out. They want to get full value.

The guy is right now 17-4-3 and in three of the losses, the Flames score zero (0) goals, while he let in 2 twice and 1 once. One could argue (and I know there are counter arguments) that he could easily be 20-1-3.

I know he is a RFA, so the Flames have that going for them.

Given his body of work, 2M is a pretty wizardly outcome. I don’t see it.

[Kasi]

Doesn’t matter if it goes to 4. At that point they can clear cap space by just getting rid of a single contract. The original post didn’t factor in the cap increase so it was flawed from the beginning. The original post needs to be rewritten in light of that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Doesn’t matter if it goes to 4. At that point they can clear cap space by just getting rid of a single contract. The original post didn’t factor in the cap increase so it was flawed from the beginning. The original post needs to be rewritten in light of that.

Are you sure you read it carefully?

Incremental salary available for Tkachuk and Bennett:
- 2.2 M, based on projected CapFriendly numbers (!)
- plus the amount the cap increases for the team

[Kasi]

Yes I read it. You made your math on that 12.5 number. That number is wrong and it’s more like mid 16. You made a note of cap increase but didn’t factor it into your math. That wiggle room is a lot in making this crunch a lot less. Moving any single contract out of any of the vets clears enough space. Even just getting Rittich cheaper almost does it on its own. I think it’s fairly unlikely Bennett gets that much given his performance so it’s really just the matter of Tkachuk. I could see any of a near half dozen players getting moved that could clear up that space. It won’t be hard is what I and others are saying here.

[Badgers Nose]

Neal for another bad contract where a change of scenery could benefit both, does such a trade exist?

Seems like any trade that gets Flames value for their $5 million would really help.

Also, a rehabbed player with that contract could be traded later if cap space is required.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Interesting opinions on Rittich.

Reportedly Tre has approached his agent but his camp prefer to let Rittich’s work play out. They want to get full value.

The guy is right now 17-4-3 and in three of the losses, the Flames score zero (0) goals, while he let in 2 twice and 1 once. One could argue (and I know there are counter arguments) that he could easily be 20-1-3.

No one is going to build a case on games Rittich “could easily” have won. Treliving would laugh and hang up the phone. Rittich’s record is what it is, and that is what both sides will be drawing from to hammer out his new deal.

I know he is a RFA, so the Flames have that going for them.

Given his body of work, 2M is a pretty wizardly outcome. I don’t see it.

I also think $2.0 m is low, but I certainly see Rittich’s number landing under $3.0 m. Casey DeSmith’s new contract is the closest comparable, and he just signed for three years @ $1.25 m.



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[Matty81]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

That only accounts for 3/5 years though.

After year 3 of the contract there will probably be a compliance buyout window at expansion like last time.

Teams can buy out any deal for 2/3 of the remaining value with no cap hit.

So flames can probably pay 6-7 Mil and get a get out of jail free card. I think it's the most likely outcome. They'll keep him next year and hope he pulls out of it... Year 3 he'll get buried to make the team better... Then buyout during compliance window.

I wonder if that compliance buyout window played into the flames thinking in taking the risk on him.

But like I said before I bet they can move him sooner if they retain a big chunk of salary. Somebody could take a chance on him around 3-3.5 Mil a year with the buyout window coming... You're "only" committing to 10 Mil or so if you pay 3 Mil for two seasons and buy it out as an acquiring team.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No one is going to build a case on games Rittich “could easily” have one. Treliving would laugh and hang up the phone. Rittich’s record is what it is, and that is what both sides will be drawing from to hammer out his new deal.



I also think $2.0 m is low, but I certainly see Rittich’s number landing under $3.0 m. Casey DeSmith’s new contract is the closest comparable, and he just signed for three years @ $1.25 m.



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That interesting on desmith... With Murray there he had less leverage though it seems. Flames are totally reliant on him right now. I could see Rittich getting 3-4 on a mid term 3 or 4 year deal if he keeps it up and more if they want to lock him down for longer.

I wish the Tkachuk deal had gotten done last summer... I'm more worried there. Could see a holdout or offer sheet after the Nylander saga. Hope he has a more reasonable agent.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Matty81

That interesting on desmith... With Murray there he had less leverage though it seems. Flames are totally reliant on him right now. I could see Rittich getting 3-4 on a mid term 3 or 4 year deal if he keeps it up and more if they want to lock him down for longer.

I wish the Tkachuk deal had gotten done last summer... I'm more worried there. Could see a holdout or offer sheet after the Nylander saga. Hope he has a more reasonable agent.

DeSmith though was UFA at end of year so he had some leverage. But I agree with you, in that Rittich’s camp won’t see that as much of a comparable. DeSmith clearly signed to be a backup. Rittich would be the starter.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No one is going to build a case on games Rittich “could easily” have one. Treliving would laugh and hang up the phone. Rittich’s record is what it is, and that is what both sides will be drawing from to hammer out his new deal.

I also think $2.0 m is low, but I certainly see Rittich’s number landing under $3.0 m. Casey DeSmith’s new contract is the closest comparable, and he just signed for three years @ $1.25 m.

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Have one what?

Why would a GM laugh based on how a goalie actually plays? I am sure there are many goalies on losing teams whose agents make the case for a contract based on their actual play, not their records.

Stats guys talk about “quality starts”, correct?

Oh I get it. Likely he and Rittich’s agent have a face to face meeting, so he tells a caller that he is in a meeting, hangs the phone up to be polite, and talks to Rittich’s agent.

You’re funny

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[Psytic]

I would bridge Rittich. There have been many goalies that have put up a single good season. It isn't a large enough sample size. He isn't getting 4 million imo.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Neal for another bad contract where a change of scenery could benefit both, does such a trade exist?

Seems like any trade that gets Flames value for their $5 million would really help.

Also, a rehabbed player with that contract could be traded later if cap space is required.

Kyle Okoposo for James Neal? Can't say he would be any better but it would be a fairly even change of scenery deal. His salary is a little higher however so they would need to add something minor or retain a bit.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Matty81

After year 3 of the contract there will probably be a compliance buyout window at expansion like last time.

There was no compliance buyout window related to expansion.


The only compliance buyouts that have been allowed were after the lockouts to allow teams to ensure they were cap-compliant after the changes introduced in the new CBAs.

The first round was after the 2005 lockout and was necessary because some teams, like the Wings, would not have been able to ice a compliant roster if they had not been allowed to make some cap-free buyouts.

The second round was after the 2013 lockout and gave teams the ability to adjust to the new 50/50 split of revenue. These compliance buyouts weren't absolutely necessary.


By all accounts, the negotiations for the next CBA are going well and both sides seem to be hopeful that another lockout can be avoided. Neither side is looking for significant changes to the salary cap structure, so it's quite likely there will not be any compliance buyouts in place when the next CBA is signed.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by getbak

There was no compliance buyout window related to expansion.


The only compliance buyouts that have been allowed were after the lockouts to allow teams to ensure they were cap-compliant after the changes introduced in the new CBAs.

The first round was after the 2005 lockout and was necessary because some teams, like the Wings, would not have been able to ice a compliant roster if they had not been allowed to make some cap-free buyouts.

The second round was after the 2013 lockout and gave teams the ability to adjust to the new 50/50 split of revenue. These compliance buyouts weren't absolutely necessary.


By all accounts, the negotiations for the next CBA are going well and both sides seem to be hopeful that another lockout can be avoided. Neither side is looking for significant changes to the salary cap structure, so it's quite likely there will not be any compliance buyouts in place when the next CBA is signed.

You're totally right... for some reason thought it was tied to expansions and not the CBA.... yuck that contract looks even worse.