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Old 10-13-2020, 10:52 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Geeoff View Post
Yzerman, Sakic and Francis also all top 10 all time in scoring.
Yes. But you sure wouldn't want Gretzky, Messier or Howe running your team. probably not Jagr either. And Phil Esposito was pretty bad as a GM.

Mario has 3 cups as a co-owner though.
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:53 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by GioforPM View Post
Itís hit and miss for star ex players being GMs or PHOs.

Blake, Milbury, Linden, Clarke were no good. Wilson, Francis - pretty good. Shanahan hasnít done much.
Sakic and Yzerman were both intelligent centres who saw their teams go from bottom feeders to contenders over the courses of their careers. And it appears both, as GMs, have listened strongly to their scouts and analytics. Lastly, both have had some big screwups - Sakic with the entire 2017-18 roster (that team was supposed to compete for the playoffs!), Yzerman with the 2010 and 2013 drafts but they identified their mistakes and simply corrected them.
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:55 AM   #43
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I don't know much about Toews, but Zadorov was a jerk to play against. Heavy game and hit to hurt. I'm glad Z is gone, and a decent but commoditized low scoring, puck moving guy replaced him.

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Old 10-13-2020, 11:35 AM   #44
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I don't know much about Toews, but Zadorov was a jerk to play against. Heavy game and hit to hurt. I'm glad Z is gone, and a decent but commoditized low scoring, puck moving guy replaced him.
Until this:



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Old 10-13-2020, 12:04 PM   #45
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I guess I'm also in the reserve judgement until Avs actually go anywhere. Great team on paper, but I still don't like their goaltending, and their defence didn't look too hot in this year's playoffs. Sure, there's oodles of potential there, but let see them actually put it all together before we crown Sakic king of gms.

Avs got REAL lucky with a few things:

1.) Tanking to get MacKinnon.
2.) MacKinnon being a late bloomer, so he signs (at the time) a market deal that is now one of the best contracts in the league.
3.) MacKinnon being a late bloomer and so the Avs suck for a few more years so they can draft top 5 multiple times.

Those aren't savy GM moves. They're just lucky situations.
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:22 PM   #46
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I guess I'm also in the reserve judgement until Avs actually go anywhere. Great team on paper, but I still don't like their goaltending, and their defence didn't look too hot in this year's playoffs. Sure, there's oodles of potential there, but let see them actually put it all together before we crown Sakic king of gms.

Avs got REAL lucky with a few things:

1.) Tanking to get MacKinnon.
2.) MacKinnon being a late bloomer, so he signs (at the time) a market deal that is now one of the best contracts in the league.
3.) MacKinnon being a late bloomer and so the Avs suck for a few more years so they can draft top 5 multiple times.

Those aren't savy GM moves. They're just lucky situations.
Ah, thats a bit simplistic.

Avs exploded and won the West with Mackinnon and company. After a poor showing in the playoffs, Sakic signed Iginla to a reasonable 3 year contract as a veteran leader to help the young core. They didn’t have immediate success, and Sakic continued to not over commit to free agents and hurt the team’s long-term development. He was also patient and absolutely nailed the Duchene trade in a major way and continues to be one of the smartest trading general managers out there.

Sure, drafting Mackinnon was absolutely massive - but he’s done a good job of not pushing the fast forward button by trading away the future at the wrong time, and just generally being a top level general manager.

In comparison, Treliving screwed up by:

- Hiring Glen Gulutzan
- Acquiring Brian Elliott (horrible goaltender, poor pro scouting)
- Signing Troy Brouwer (horrible free agent signing, poor pro scouting)
- Trading for Travis Hamonic (huge overspend, poor pro scouting)
- Signing James Neal (worst free agent signing in team history, poor pro scouting)

Yeah, it’s not a huge list of mistakes - but it’s enough to damage a rebuild’s momentum. Absolutely putrid performance in free agency and inability to properly identify good value goaltenders when top-tier goaltending isn’t available has hurt this team almost every off-season since Treliving took over....and yeah, hiring Gulutzan was a gigantic disaster. One notable mistake each off-season is the difference between a top-end general manager, and a middling one.

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Old 10-13-2020, 01:28 PM   #47
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I think the key thing is that both Yzerman and Sakic were on really bad teams at some point in their career, and possibly learned that sometimes you need to lose, to ultimately have that winning team.

Doug Wilson and David Poile made a lot of good moves and ran what were pretty good teams for sustained periods of time, but they couldn't get their teams to push past the second round of the playoffs or win a cup. Both of them have made some riskier moves lately to try and push past that...and it has probably resulted in some stinkers that neither had previously made.

So you can make every move by the books analytics wise...but sometimes you need to make that deal that can hurt to ultimately push thru. In time I'm sure Tampa might not like giving up some of what they did for Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow. But they helped the team win a cup. I don't know if a purley analytics approach would have resulted in those deals.
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Old 10-14-2020, 04:33 PM   #48
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:58 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
Sakic and Yzerman were both intelligent centres who saw their teams go from bottom feeders to contenders over the courses of their careers. And it appears both, as GMs, have listened strongly to their scouts and analytics. Lastly, both have had some big screwups - Sakic with the entire 2017-18 roster (that team was supposed to compete for the playoffs!), Yzerman with the 2010 and 2013 drafts but they identified their mistakes and simply corrected them.
Makes you wonder if Nieuwendyk might not be a bad choice for next Flames GM. He had a short run with Dallas and didnít get the same leash to screw up and fix things like Yzerman and Sakic have.
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Old 10-15-2020, 09:48 AM   #50
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I totally forgot the Avs still have Newhook coming too. Another stud top 6 player for them.
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