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Old 10-03-2020, 10:21 AM   #1
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So I think just as a mental exercise, and its something that I'm interested in, and there seems to be some interested parties here, I'm going to start this thread. I used to do lists, but I kind of ran out of list ideas. So instead, I'm going to do this. Once a week, probably on Sunday, I'm going to try to put up one article. It will either cover a significant moment in military history, ie battles, standoffs, decisions, or I will pick one weapon, whether its a class or a individual system. This is not about some glorification of the weapons platform, or a war F yeah moment, but just a break down of history or technology. Of course you are all welcome to participate its an open thread.

I think a good start up for tomorrow is I'm going to talk about the Typhoon class submarines. One of the largest submarines ever built, a terrifying first threat weapon built at the height of the Cold War and a display of Soviet Naval power.

If you all want me to research and talk about something specific, please leave it in the thread here. If you want to write something of your own, please feel free.
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Old 10-03-2020, 08:16 PM   #2
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I heard Captain Marko Ramius died in an accident with one of those.
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Old 10-03-2020, 08:21 PM   #3
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i'm hoping we get some first hand stories from undercoverbrother!


i have nothing but respect for the men and women who have served and continue to serve our country
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:29 PM   #4
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I never knew you were into the military, crunch.
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Old 10-03-2020, 10:54 PM   #5
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Please go into the gory history of the "black rifle" ar-15/m-16/c-7 and it's adoption by military forces.

if you have any interesting history of the "the right arm of the free world" (C1A1) that'd be neat too.


another overview that would be neat would be how much stuff the average infantry is expected to hump into theater and the various bag/pouch systems designed, and how velcro is the wrong pocket flap for a ground pounder. The average airsofter would know only about molle?

Maybe go over the Seaking.
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Old 10-04-2020, 12:49 AM   #6
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You need to be a youtuber. Talk about history. Maybe film places of significance
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Old 10-04-2020, 02:19 PM   #7
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The Typhoon (Akula) Ballistic Missile Submarine


Introduction
The Typhoon class submarine know to the Soviet Union as the Akula or Shark Class SSBN was a symbol of the height of the cold war, where paranoia, the concept of Mad, drove Military design strategy. The Typhoon was a revolutionary leap forward for the Soviet Union in terms of Submarine design and construction, an offensive weapon designed to be far more devastating and undetectable then the Delta Class Missile Boat.
The Typhoon was meant to be the answer to the American Ohio class and the Soviets first shot at designing and sailing a Third Generation Ballistic Missile Boat.

The SSBN was a key part of any nations nuclear defense playbook, it was expected to be either a first strike decapitation weapon, creeping up on an enemy shoreline and showering its cities with fairly accurate nuclear warheads, or a undetectable part of their weapons inventory that can escape a disarming first strike and fire a retaliatory strike.

Boat design and concepts

With a leap forward in quieting, electronic and sensors the Typhoon was one of the largest submarines ever built at a length of 175 meters and displacing 48,000 tons submerged, the Typhoon was as long as some WW2 battleships, while massively eclipsing its firepower.

The Typhoon was built to its size not because of ego, but out of necessity as it was designed to carry 20 of the massive new RSM-52 SLBM which carried 10 war heads each for a total of 200 warheads with an effective yield of 100 KT per war head or more. Because of the massive size of these missiles the Soviets were forced to build a massive boat to contain them.

To put this into perspective the Delta IV class was a large boat checking in at 155 meters, while the Ohio was slightly smaller at 170 M.
The Typhoon was also designed with a different look, while other SSBN’s had their missiles aft of the sale, the Typhoon had their missiles forward of the main sale, this was due to the extreme weight of the missiles which forced more of a load balancing by the Soviet Engineers instead of putting in a massive ballast system.

The other key thing to look at with the Typhoon was its construction, which was to take 5 pressure hulls and wield them together to create habitable spaces, and then enclose those pressure hulls within a double hull system. This created a extremely heavy submarine, but it also created a very tough submarine that in theory could survive torpedo hits to its side.

The other unique feature of the Typhoon was that it contained two pressurized water cooled nuclear reactors that generated 190 MWt each, This might seem inefficient as the Ohio used a single reactor that generated 220 MWt to provide all propulsion and power. However the Typhoon had enormous energy needs, and Soviet engineers and designers are huge fans of redundancy and fail over as the Typhoon also had two independent drive systems driving two propellor shafts, The Typhoon also included two redundant diesel engines in case of a catastrophic failure of its reactors.
In terms of advances in quieting, the Typhoon was a generational leap forward from the second generation Delta IV. The Typhoon used a natural circulation reactors which removed the use of pumps. They placed isolation rafts under most of the sound carrying machinery and coated the sub with sound absorbing tiles. Because of these changes, the Typhoon was a fairly quiet boat that was 3 to 10 times quieter than the previous generation and its sound signature was estimated to be 5 – 10 db. This was a quiet boat, however when you consider that the Ohio Class boat was actually quieter then its surrounding environment and you run into a key issue. On a good day a Typhoon was probably trackable however it would be at fairly close range and in good sea conditions. But it was expected that the Typhoon could get anywhere in the world without detection and launch its missiles.

By design the Typhoon was not designed to be fast as its top submerged speed was 25 knots, not especially maneuverable. It could dive fairly deep with its published depth being 400 M, in comparison its primary enemy the Las Angeles Class Submarine could maybe dive to about 300 M.
But the Typhoon was no shrinking violet, it was designed to operate independently unlike other Soviet Missile Boats that were designed to work with escorting SSN’s. They Typhoon besides having its natural defenses based around its double hulled multiple pressure hull design also carried 6 forward mounted torpedo tubes and the Typhoon could carry 24 torpedoes including 5 in the tubes. It also had the unique addition of a Igla Sam system on its tower, attached to its masks system, this was put in place to allow the Typhoon to engaged airborne hunting targets.

From an operational area the Typhoon was designed to work in the ice heavy arctic, with her hardened sales, the Typhoon could pop through the ice to fire its missiles if need be, this offered another area of protection as the Typhoon could operate beyond most SSN’s capabilities of operating under the ice, and the areas under the ice are incredibly noisy so detection of a Typhoon would be next to impossible


Crew Life

With a crew of 160 officers and ratings, space was at a premium in the Typhoon. As large as it was, most of the room on the boat was taken up by the engineering spaces in the back including its two reactors and diesel engines, and its 20 missile tubes in the front. Enlisted men and junior officers were forced to hot bunk or share beds in shifts, while the senior officers shared state rooms and the Captain, Political Officer and Executive Officer or Starpom had their own relatively small staterooms.

However for most of the crew, life on a sub was better then life on land. Most of the conscripts on board were recruited from farms because of their ability to understand and maintain equipment. For them, the food was certainly better, and like pilots in the Soviet Air Force the pay was better. The Typhoon also had some unique comforts such as a swimming pool (Relax it was the size of a large hot tub, and a sauna. However, its likely that unlike propaganda films, those amenities were reserved for the senior officers. However its certain that the food was better on a Soviet Submarine then what they received on land, though due to space issues, unlike American Subs, the Soviet diet on a sub featured a lot less fresh food. During periods of extreme quiet, the crew ate cold sandwiches and cold drinks.

The crew usually worked on a 6-hour 18 hour off schedule. However their 18 hours off was dedicated to training. Political studies, and uniform and basic maintenance duties as well as sleep.

Once a week, Officers were expected to attend party meetings, which would be similar to Chapal on a US Submarine. Run by the Ships political officer they'd review party theory, the Political Officer would read opinion columns from Pravda and they'd have discussions around being the best New Soviet Man that they could be.

The biggest issue in the Soviet Navy though was the lack of a clear culture. Most naval conscripts in submarines would serve a 5 year period and then return to regular duties. The true backbone of a well trained navy is the building of an established NCO core, the Soviets never grasped that and usually relied on what is basically instant chiefs that weren’t more experienced or better trained then junior ratings, but were deemed to be smarter and more politically reliable and were given specialized training. But usually these individuals would leave the navy at the end of their terms. This put extraordinary pressure on the junior naval officers who would usually perform duties that in any other navy in the world would be performed by well trained NCOs. At the same time the NCO’s would usually find that their duties were extremely basic and more around things like base maintenance and cleaning, and serving.


Boomer Tactics

First of all Boomer operations between Soviet and other navies that employed these ships were vastly different. All though the Typhoon had a unlimited range only limited by food and consumables, they spent very little time at sea compared to the Western Navies who would usually have two full crews and go on months long deterrence cruises. The reason for this was mainly based around the lack of direct control that the Soviet Government could have over a nuclear armed extremely quiet weapons platform. The senior soviet naval officers and government never trusted their captains. Therefore, for the most part a Typhoon would sit in dock for most of its life, surging forward for exercises and alerts.

Its important to note that a Missile Boat is different from any other weapons platform. This is a strategic asset and not a tactical asset, the loss of 200 warheads rips a big hole in the Soviet SIOP and there fore they were to be protected at all costs. When a Typhoon was surged or deployed it was usually accompanies by mine sweepers, anti submarine frigates and anti-Submarine helicopters and aircraft. These assets for the most part would run as active as possible to drive off any Western Submarine in an operation called sanitization. The Boomer would then leave port, get to open water, dive as deep as it could and cut its speed to the point where its at its lowest radiated sound level.

From there the Boomer would usually have an SSN consort or two to run patrol in the SSBN’s patrol area, or escort it to what the Soviets called a Bastian, areas protected by mine fields and passive sensors with limited entry and exit points. From there the SSBN’s would lie in wait for a launch order.

The Typhoon had heavily improved its sensors and featured a very good towed sonar array. In the Boomer community the mission is to hide or be the chicken of the sea. A Typhoon would drift in its patrol area at minimal steerage listening for enemy submarines, and then when it identified one it would slowly move away. It was rare that a Typhoon would run up to full speed, first of all because at full speed the boat is so noisy that it blinds its sensors. Second of all, even with its tiling and quieting a high speed propeller creates air bubbles that instantly collapse which is extremely noisy. In the movie the Hunt for Red October this was referred to as Cavitation or the creation of vacuum by a fast moving propeller.

The question though is this. The SLBM’s carried by the Typhoon had an effective range of 8 to 10000 KM’s depending on variant. A Typhoon could literally fire their missiles while tied off at the dock and hit pretty much any target in the world. The answer is time, the idea behind a Boomer is sneak up as close to the enemy as possible and fire its missiles while giving very few minutes for an enemy to react, fire or evacuate. Simply put the Soviet and American Missile boats were literally first strike decapitation weapons designed to attack a countries command and control system and its leadership. Of all the horrifying aspects of nuclear war this is the most terrifying. There would from launch to detonation maybe up to 15 minutes of warning time, especially if shore counter detection had failed.

Ships in Class

Between 1981 and 1989 there were 6 Typhoons commissioned by the Soviet Navy, Today there are two remaining Typhoons that are decommissioned in in active reserves, which probably means that they are a long way from deactivation.

With the end of the Cold War, the Soviets now Russians could not afford to keep a large military, the Navy probably suffered the most, with most of the submarine fleet rotting and rusting at their piers. The Typhoons were deactivated with US Financial Support and scrapped in 2009.

With the two remaining Typhoons there was talk of modifying them to be cruise missile Submarines or mine laying submarines, or they would follow the US lead and convert the Typhoons to become special operations platforms. However the costs of doing this and modernizing the boats were prohibited. There was also talk of converting them to carry liquified natural gas or other freight, and being able to shorten transportation lines under the artic ice, but this was scrapped due to expense and environmental concerns around their twin reactors.

The Russians have already started to rebuild their submarine navy with the excellent Boreir class submarines. These are smaller boats with smaller crews with extremely advanced sonar and quieting systems. The Borei is also a multi-role submarine that can be quickly modified to fire the Russian advanced Bulava SLBM or land and sea attack cruise missiles.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:03 PM   #8
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I'm torn for next week, I'm looking at the T-34, The F-104, or the Battle of Hampton Roads.


Let me know what you'd like to see.
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:31 AM   #9
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Well if you're asking, Dien Bien Phu.
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
I'm torn for next week, I'm looking at the T-34, The F-104, or the Battle of Hampton Roads.


Let me know what you'd like to see.
Easy answer

T-34

For a little thing it was/is a beast of a tank. Saw a surprising amount of action in the Balkan Wars. How many weapons systems of that type can make the same claim, still seeing combat 50 years post design.
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliche View Post
Please go into the gory history of the "black rifle" ar-15/m-16/c-7 and it's adoption by military forces.

if you have any interesting history of the "the right arm of the free world" (C1A1) that'd be neat too.


another overview that would be neat would be how much stuff the average infantry is expected to hump into theater and the various bag/pouch systems designed, and how velcro is the wrong pocket flap for a ground pounder. The average airsofter would know only about molle?

Maybe go over the Seaking.
I think you actually mean the FN FAL, which is the generic term of the rifle of which the C1A1 was based.

A good weapon for the time, unless you are talking C2, what a POS on so many levels.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother View Post
I think you actually mean the FN FAL, which is the generic term of the rifle of which the C1A1 was based.

A good weapon for the time, unless you are talking C2, what a POS on so many levels.
I knew it as the SLR but only got to use it in cadets.

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Old 10-05-2020, 11:55 AM   #13
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I knew it as the SLR but only got to use it in cadets.
In Canada?

Cuz, it was never called an SLR in Canada. Different weapon.
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Old 10-05-2020, 01:24 PM   #14
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Ok, next Sunday, I'm going to do the T-34.


The Sunday after that I plan to do the



Dien Bien Phu I just have to think about how I'm going to write that because of the massive political ramifications of it.
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Old 10-05-2020, 01:52 PM   #15
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Dien Bien Phu I just have to think about how I'm going to write that because of the massive political ramifications of it.
I don't really care Captain, get it done. If you have to make it a 7-parter, I can accept that.

I have a list when you're done with that one.



Excellent write-up on the Typhoon. I think it would be neat to have you read a US/China War Scenario and give your thoughts on its likelihood/realism.
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:03 PM   #16
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Ok, next Sunday, I'm going to do the T-34.
outstanding
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:15 PM   #17
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In Canada?

Cuz, it was never called an SLR in Canada. Different weapon.
Australia.
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:17 PM   #18
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Australia.
makes sense, Ben_in_Canada_Formerly_of_Australia
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:28 PM   #19
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I'd love to see you dig into the AK-47.

While not the most accurate weapon in the world it is the most abundant (with all it's variants) weapon in the world.

I struggle to think of a rifle that has had such a significant impact on the world.

Hell it is on Mozambique's flag FFS.

The Eastern Bloc weapons intrigue me, there is zero concern for anything other than the mass production of them, things such as soldier comfort are out the window.
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I don't really care Captain, get it done. If you have to make it a 7-parter, I can accept that.

I have a list when you're done with that one.



Excellent write-up on the Typhoon. I think it would be neat to have you read a US/China War Scenario and give your thoughts on its likelihood/realism.

I'd love to, any content ideas would be welcome. A bunch of years ago, Tom Clancy wrote the book SSN which was a companion piece to the video game SSN. It played out fighting a war against China over the Spratley Islands. It was heavy on tactics, but a bit light on technology which was surprising.


The Chinese reformation of their military where they're adding power projection. Amphibious invasion capabilities and long range stealthy multi-role fighters has very little to do with reclaiming Taiwan, and more to do with capturing that resource rich area and sealing off the Sea of Japan.
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