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Old 09-30-2020, 11:33 PM   #1
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Default Systemic Racism in US and Canada

Okay, I think it's about time we start this back up again from this recent story in Canada...



Canada: outcry after video shows hospital staff taunting dying Indigenous woman
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Joyce Echaquan, a 37-year-old Atikamekw woman, arrived at a hospital in the Quebec city of Joliette on Monday, complaining of stomach pain.

The mother of seven had previously suffered similar issues and told staff she had a heart condition. Echaquan started live-streaming her experience on Facebook as her pain escalated, and staff at the hospital appeared indifferent to her pleas for help.

In the footage, Echaquan is seen grimacing as nurses call her “stupid as hell”. “Are you done acting stupid? Are you done?” asked one nurse in French as Echaquan moaned in pain.

“You made some bad choices, my dear,” another nurse said. “What are your children going to think, seeing you like this?”

“She’s good at having sex, more than anything else,” the first nurse said.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...woman-hospital

Absolutely terrible, just feel a pit in my stomach reading that and imaging how the poor girl must have felt.

Last edited by Looch City; 10-01-2020 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 09-30-2020, 11:34 PM   #2
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Let's keep the conversation civil this time please. And above all else, follow these three words:

Be an ally.
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Old 10-01-2020, 01:24 AM   #3
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Old 10-01-2020, 03:06 AM   #4
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What happened to this women is truly awful, nobody deserves to have that lack of care and compassion when nearing the end of their young life.

I fully believe that racism, prejudice, gender bias and other issues really do plague the health care system but in this specific case, has that been established?

From the articles and video I have seen, is race or ethnicity brought up? It may have but I may have missed it, Or are we just talking about general criminal negligence and neglect in the health care system, similar to some of the awful stories we have heard in long term care homes before, during and after Covid?
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curves2000 View Post
What happened to this women is truly awful, nobody deserves to have that lack of care and compassion when nearing the end of their young life.

I fully believe that racism, prejudice, gender bias and other issues really do plague the health care system but in this specific case, has that been established?

From the articles and video I have seen, is race or ethnicity brought up? It may have but I may have missed it, Or are we just talking about general criminal negligence and neglect in the health care system, similar to some of the awful stories we have heard in long term care homes before, during and after Covid?
I would say yes. you think those comments would have been made if it was a white person?
I 100% believe it was based on her being an indigenous person.

I don't think a person's race needs to be mentioned in an incident to make it racist.

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Old 10-01-2020, 07:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curves2000 View Post
From the articles and video I have seen, is race or ethnicity brought up? It may have but I may have missed it, Or are we just talking about general criminal negligence and neglect in the health care system, similar to some of the awful stories we have heard in long term care homes before, during and after Covid?
I see what you are saying but someone doesn't always have to be spouting racial slurs for an incident to be considered racism. The treatment of indigenous people at this hospital in particular has been the subject of reports citing systemic racism.
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:33 AM   #7
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Edmonton anti-racist protesters clash with group with far-right connections
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...sday-1.5745741

‘Small number of kooks’: Jason Kenney condemns apparent racist rally in Edmonton
https://globalnews.ca/news/7370064/j...onton-condemn/

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It’s the latest in a series of racial encounters in the province.

Workers at a project near a junior high school in Edmonton were fired recently after swearing and using racist language during an Indigenous smudging ceremony, and clashes have taken place between white supremacist groups and Black Lives Matter demonstrators.

“It’s unfortunate that we’ve got a small number of kooks who go around trying to get attention for a message of hate,” said Kenney. “We condemn racism and racial prejudice.”
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:38 AM   #8
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Internal document shows Trump officials were told to make comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse

In prepping DHS officials for questions about Rittenhouse, the document suggests they say he took a gun to Kenosha "to help defend small business owners.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...hetic-n1241581
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:41 AM   #9
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Here is the video

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/20...nants-racistes

The woman was not speaking in french, so it sounds like she was incoherant and was treated as such when she was screaming for help. So yes it was totally racism. They told her how proud her children would be to see her like this and she's better off dead.

Quebec is a very racist province as soon as you move east of Montreal, probably more so than any other province including Alberta and Red Deer. The attitude they had towards her was one of seeing her as subhuman.

The translation from the guardians is extremely poor, it was much more vulgar and derogatory than that.

"Esti d’épaisse de tabarnouche... C’est mieux mort, ça. As-tu fini de niaiser... câlisse? T’es épaisse en câlisse" does not translate to "stupid"...

Best translation as it loses its derogatory meaning in English: You **** fat ****. It's better off dead, that thing. Are you done fooling around ****? You fat **** . Replace the **** with your favourite swear word.

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Old 10-01-2020, 08:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curves2000 View Post
What happened to this women is truly awful, nobody deserves to have that lack of care and compassion when nearing the end of their young life.

I fully believe that racism, prejudice, gender bias and other issues really do plague the health care system but in this specific case, has that been established?

From the articles and video I have seen, is race or ethnicity brought up? It may have but I may have missed it, Or are we just talking about general criminal negligence and neglect in the health care system, similar to some of the awful stories we have heard in long term care homes before, during and after Covid?
You establish it based on previous events and the history of racism against Indigenous folk in Canada. I mean this was just in June in BC and is even more "blatant racism" if you want to call it that:

Quote:
A Canadian province is investigating claims that healthcare staff played a racist "game" by betting on the blood alcohol level of indigenous patients.

The claims, involving staff in at least one British Columbia hospital, came to light after a community leader filed a complaint on Thursday.

Health Minister Adrian Dix called the allegations "abhorrent" and has hired an independent investigator.

He would not say which hospital was named in the complaint.

"The allegation is that a game was being played to investigate the blood alcohol level of patients in the emergency rooms, in particular with indigenous people and perhaps others. And if true, it is intolerable and racist and of course (has) affected profoundly patient care," Mr Dix told a press conference Friday. He did not say if any staff faced disciplinary action.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53116593
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curves2000 View Post
What happened to this women is truly awful, nobody deserves to have that lack of care and compassion when nearing the end of their young life.
Would she have died if they were giving her proper care? I read she knew the morphine was having an adverse reaction and they tied her down and gave her morphine.
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:31 AM   #12
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TIL that a Canadian man, Gavin Mcinnes, is the founder of Proud Boys.
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:41 AM   #13
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TIL that a Canadian man, Gavin Mcinnes, is the founder of Proud Boys.
Born in England. Let's blame Boris!
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:41 AM   #14
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I really appreciate someone starting a fresh thread for this as it is an important topic. However, in a discussion about systemic racism we should probably amend the thread title to accurately call it systemic.

That and I think I might have a stroke having to read systematic multiple times a day.

Looch, thank you and please amend the thread title. Please?
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:46 AM   #15
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I think these are all separate threads.

Systemic racism is too broad to maintain a coherent thread, especially as it relates to the USA. I think indigenous issues in Canada are serious enough, it needs its own thread because it extends well beyond systemic racism.

Just my two cents.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
I think these are all separate threads.

Systemic racism is too broad to maintain a coherent thread, especially as it relates to the USA. I think indigenous issues in Canada are serious enough, it needs its own thread because it extends well beyond systemic racism.

Just my two cents.
Was coming here to post exactly this.

I also think because the issue is magnified in the US a lot more, and runs on the media cycle all the time, the issues in Canada are kind of swept under the rug.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curves2000 View Post
What happened to this women is truly awful, nobody deserves to have that lack of care and compassion when nearing the end of their young life.

I fully believe that racism, prejudice, gender bias and other issues really do plague the health care system but in this specific case, has that been established?

From the articles and video I have seen, is race or ethnicity brought up? It may have but I may have missed it, Or are we just talking about general criminal negligence and neglect in the health care system, similar to some of the awful stories we have heard in long term care homes before, during and after Covid?

That video was reprehensible, those health care workers should be gone.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:30 AM   #18
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https://globalnews.ca/news/7367241/e...y-staff-fired/

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On Friday, students and staff were conducting a smudging ceremony on the basketball court at Edith Rogers School. The school says nearby construction workers swore and yelled racial slurs while they revved their engines in an attempt to disrupt the ceremony.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:36 AM   #19
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Ever since I moved to Canada in the early 80's I was aware that there was embedded racism within Canada. It was far more obvious than most people realized and yet these people did not see or understand that what they said (or acted) as racist nor derogatory. It was SO embedded in their psyche and culture. I'm not talking upper class, I'm talking about the working "Joe" and his family... the middle and lower middle class. Their entitlement that THEY were absolute not racist was shocking, and they validated their words and actions by pointing to South Africa (large scale anti-apartheid riots, gatherings, etc... were occuring both in SA and "supportive" countries). The only difference, IMO, was that racism in SA had an official title (apartheid) whereas Canada and USA did not. In this example I am mostly referencing the obvious skin tone differences, however I as a child here in Calgary I had "yellow" and "brown" friends (oriental, Malay, east-Indian, etc...) that also experienced various degrees of prejudice. As there are people "of color" in my immediate family I still hear and see things often.



Although racism and prejudice has declined it's still present. It has changed too, and not necessarily for the better. Is there any difference between subtle racism/prejudice? or named segregation, or blatant in-your-face prejudice better or worse?
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:58 AM   #20
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Ever since I moved to Canada in the early 80's I was aware that there was embedded racism within Canada. It was far more obvious than most people realized and yet these people did not see or understand that what they said (or acted) as racist nor derogatory. It was SO embedded in their psyche and culture. I'm not talking upper class, I'm talking about the working "Joe" and his family... the middle and lower middle class. Their entitlement that THEY were absolute not racist was shocking, and they validated their words and actions by pointing to South Africa (large scale anti-apartheid riots, gatherings, etc... were occuring both in SA and "supportive" countries). The only difference, IMO, was that racism in SA had an official title (apartheid) whereas Canada and USA did not. In this example I am mostly referencing the obvious skin tone differences, however I as a child here in Calgary I had "yellow" and "brown" friends (oriental, Malay, east-Indian, etc...) that also experienced various degrees of prejudice. As there are people "of color" in my immediate family I still hear and see things often.



Although racism and prejudice has declined it's still present. It has changed too, and not necessarily for the better. Is there any difference between subtle racism/prejudice? or named segregation, or blatant in-your-face prejudice better or worse?
This disconnect Canadians have with their prejudices is pretty startling when you come from somewhere else, even the US. I don't think it's that blatant and I think that's why people have trouble identifying it and dealing with it, it's these learned ideas that infect the way people think and act, even while telling themselves "I'm not racist." Some people have come to believe that as long as I don't outwardly hate someone because of their skin colour, I'm not racist. But how has their own upbringing influenced the way they think about others, even on a subconscious level? Or their parents' views?

One thing though, I love your overall message, but we don't use the term "oriental" for people anymore. I know you didn't mean anything by it, so I just wanted to let you know.
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