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Old 06-18-2020, 10:10 AM   #41
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Yeah, Singh continues to be an embarrassment. "Anyone who votes against this motion is a racist"... #### you.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:13 AM   #42
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It's funny that partisan Canadians think the country's perception around the world is influenced by which party or PM is in power.

Quick: Who's the prime minister of Norway and which party does she/he lead?
I recall that the President of Finland was a dead ringer for Conan O'Brien.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:26 AM   #43
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At the end of the day, the UN bid failed. My problem with the whole thing is that Trudeau was phoning some of the worst of the worst to gain their votes.


The President of Rwanda, the leader in Qatar, The leader of Oman. He sent money I think to Rwanda, but it could have been someone else to support their oil and gas industry, even though their human rights record is horrific. Our China policy more felt like something pulled out to get support from them in the UN.



It felt like Canada was selling their soul for this UN vote.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:38 AM   #44
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God I hate politics sometimes. I found myself agreeing with Blanchet over the whole Singh thing.

There was a committee forming to review the systematic racism accusation in the RCMP, that also included creating a list of recommendations including things like process reviews, budget reviews etc.

The Bloc MP voting against it, wasn't a racist reaction in this case, and Blanchet was right, we can't just throw bills out there without review and information. Singh was trying to short circuit what in my mind would have been a review with a popularist bill.

I could be wrong, but Singh does owe an apology for throwing out a racist accusation.

Now that doesn't mean that I'm on board with the block. If Singh would have demanded the government step up to force Quebec off of Bill 21 (I think) and the Bloc would have said no, I would have had no trouble with the Bloc being called out for Racism as that is a toxic race and religious discrimination based bill in Quebec.
I don't disagree that playing the "vote with me or you're a racist" card is sh-t politics, but I thought this was a motion, not a bill.

I searched and couldn't actually find the full language of what was proposed beyond:

That the House recognize that there is systemic racism in the RCMP, as several Indigenous people have died at the hands of the RCMP in recent months, and call on the government to:
- review the nearly $10 million per day RCMP budget and the RCMP Act;
- increase non-police investments in non-violent intervention, de-escalation, and mental health and addiction supports;
- ensure that the RCMP is truly accountable to the public;
- release all RCMP incidents of use of force reports and the associated settlement costs; and,
- immediately launch a full review of the use of force by the RCMP, including reviewing the tactics and the training that is given to RCMP officers in dealing with the public.


Was there more to this than the above to review?
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:40 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher View Post
It's funny that partisan Canadians think the country's perception around the world is influenced by which party or PM is in power.

Quick: Who's the prime minister of Norway and which party does she/he lead?
Did the prime minister of Norway ever dress up in Blackface, grope a woman, circumvent the law in an international bribery case, that involved buying hookers for Muammar Gaddafi's son? You have to believe a PM involved in multiple scandals is far more memorable than one who isn't. At least to those you're dealing with on the International stage, which is what really counts.

But I agree, to the majority of people across the world, Canada is more than it's Prime minister, just like Alberta is more than it's Premier.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:46 AM   #46
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Did the prime minister of Norway ever dress up in Blackface, grope a woman, circumvent the law in an international bribery case, that involved buying hookers for Muammar Gaddafi's son? You have to believe a PM involved in multiple scandals is far more memorable than one who isn't. At least to those you're dealing with on the International stage, which is what really counts.

But I agree, to the majority of people across the world, Canada is more than it's Prime minister, just like Alberta is more than it's Premier.

This lead to one of the greatest comedy moments in parliament when Trudeau tried to dodge the question about the buying of hookers for Gaddaffi, instead he went into a talking point about creating good Canadian jobs.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:50 AM   #47
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Yeah, Singh continues to be an embarrassment. "Anyone who votes against this motion is a racist"... #### you.
When you're being dismissive and antagonistic of a person of colour and failing to acknowledge systemic racism while doing so, you're probably a racist. Keep in mind the MP is the same guy who ferociously supported Bill 21 to prevent Muslim's from wearing religious symbols if they wanted a job. At one point, when can we call a spade a spade?

Like I said, good on Singh. I think Therrien's silence is deafening. No explanation as to why he didn't support the otherwise unanimous motion or even denial that he didn't do the gestures described by Singh.

Singh obviously had to be kicked out afterwards for failing to apology, but I support his conviction.

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Old 06-18-2020, 10:55 AM   #48
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I don't disagree that playing the "vote with me or you're a racist" card is sh-t politics, but I thought this was a motion, not a bill.

I searched and couldn't actually find the full language of what was proposed beyond:

That the House recognize that there is systemic racism in the RCMP, as several Indigenous people have died at the hands of the RCMP in recent months, and call on the government to:
- review the nearly $10 million per day RCMP budget and the RCMP Act;
- increase non-police investments in non-violent intervention, de-escalation, and mental health and addiction supports;
- ensure that the RCMP is truly accountable to the public;
- release all RCMP incidents of use of force reports and the associated settlement costs; and,
- immediately launch a full review of the use of force by the RCMP, including reviewing the tactics and the training that is given to RCMP officers in dealing with the public.


Was there more to this than the above to review?

Yes, all actions that Justin had already talked about and there was discussion on creating a committee or study group for this that could present findings to Parliament. Singh's bill to me came across as political theater or grandstanding, maybe that's just me.


Singh would have been better off with a simplified bill that demanded followup of forming the study group and putting a time line on it.



That's my interpretation. And flinging out an accusation of racism without the understanding of why the person objected to the bill is to me wrong, and extra parliamentary.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:57 AM   #49
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Add on, Singh could have absolutely held any committee or study group to account. Something that parliament has really failed to do on the Missing Indigenous Woman's group, that has completely dropped the ball on the study and execution of the study.


He could have simply stood up, and talked about the forming of the RCMP study and simply asked when and what they're coming back with.


Make no mistake this was blindly throwing out a racism accusation in the name of political theatre, and to me that's not baseball.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:59 AM   #50
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When you're being dismissive and antagonistic of a person of colour and failing to acknowledge systemic racism while doing so, you're probably a racist. Keep in mind the MP is the same guy who ferociously supported Bill 21 to prevent Muslim's from wearing religious
I'm not even talking about the accusation. I'm talking about the quote - that if you vote against the motion, you are a racist. Being the sort of person who could say a thing like that should disqualify him from being an MP at all, much less the leader of a major party. That Joe McCarthy method of presupposing a sinister moral corruption behind anyone who opposes you does not belong in our politics. The fact that you can so full-throatedly support this tactic because you don't like the person it was aimed at is a good demonstration of why.
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:03 AM   #51
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Make no mistake this was blindly throwing out a racism accusation in the name of political theatre, and to me that's not baseball.
"Blindly" is a poor character of what happened.

I mean Singh knows that if it was up to this guy he wouldn't be allowed to wear his turban. He allegedly saw him doing dismissive gestures. And they've worked together now for how long? It's obviously that this wasn't a blind accusation.

As for the political theatre and grandstanding, if that's all it was then what's the harm in voting yes? The fact that Therrien felt the need to be so purposely against it, speaks more to him than anyone else...
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:05 AM   #52
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When you're being dismissive and antagonistic of a person of colour and failing to acknowledge systemic racism while doing so, you're probably a racist. Keep in mind the MP is the same guy who ferociously supported Bill 21 to prevent Muslim's from wearing religious symbols if they wanted a job. At one point, when can we call a spade a spade?

Like I said, good on Singh. I think Therrien's silence is deafening. No explanation as to why he didn't support the otherwise unanimous motion or even denial that he didn't do the gestures described by Singh.

Singh obviously had to be kicked out afterwards for failing to apology, but I support his conviction.

Look, you and me are on the same page on Bill 21, we're probably on the same page in terms of a strong dislike of the Bloc and what they stand for.


But Therrion really didn't have to come out to his defense, considering that the party leader did and his explanation was to me the proper one.


I mean would it have been ok for Singh to stand up in the house after the blackface scandal and call Justin a racist in the house?



What's our standard? Basically Singh put a pretty flawed bill out there and without explanation threw out a accusation of if your not with me your a racist.


Singh also knows better, how things have to work in parliament in the name of this government working fairly and he ignored that.
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:06 AM   #53
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Yes, all actions that Justin had already talked about and there was discussion on creating a committee or study group for this that could present findings to Parliament. Singh's bill to me came across as political theater or grandstanding, maybe that's just me.

Singh would have been better off with a simplified bill that demanded followup of forming the study group and putting a time line on it.

That's my interpretation. And flinging out an accusation of racism without the understanding of why the person objected to the bill is to me wrong, and extra parliamentary.
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What's our standard? Basically Singh put a pretty flawed bill out there and without explanation threw out a accusation of if your not with me your a racist.
Motion.

If it was a bill, you'd be able to find more complete and thorough language than what I just posted. You'd be able to refer to it as "Bill D-69" or whatever they call it. Motions are the starting point; "Hey, we should focus our attention to this over here". A bill is the resulting proposed legislation from the discussion of the motion subject matter.
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:08 AM   #54
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I mean would it have been ok for Singh to stand up in the house after the blackface scandal and call Justin a racist in the house?
Sure. If he truly thought that was still the case. And I'm sure the right-wingers would have loved him for it...

He would have also be asked to apologize and when he didn't he would be kicked out. That's how it works, but sometimes it's worth it.
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:08 AM   #55
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Look, you and me are on the same page on Bill 21, we're probably on the same page in terms of a strong dislike of the Bloc and what they stand for.


But Therrion really didn't have to come out to his defense, considering that the party leader did and his explanation was to me the proper one.


I mean would it have been ok for Singh to stand up in the house after the blackface scandal and call Justin a racist in the house?



What's our standard? Basically Singh put a pretty flawed bill out there and without explanation threw out a accusation of if your not with me your a racist.


Singh also knows better, how things have to work in parliament in the name of this government working fairly and he ignored that.
You keep saying "bill." This is not what a bill is. This was a motion. And your characterization seems consistent with the idea that it was a bill, when it wasn't.
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:59 AM   #56
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I wouldnt classify not getting security seat at the UN as embarrassing for Canadians in general per se, but sock boy has to be pissed right off and wearing some egg on his face when it was part of his platform.

This, however, resonates as something getting worse by the day it seems

https://twitter.com/user/status/1273388814963216385
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Old 06-18-2020, 12:05 PM   #57
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Also...just another day with the LPC.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1273643083029250048
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Old 06-18-2020, 12:14 PM   #58
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I wouldnt classify not getting security seat at the UN as embarrassing for Canadians in general per se, but sock boy has to be pissed right off and wearing some egg on his face when it was part of his platform.

This, however, resonates as something getting worse by the day it seems

https://twitter.com/user/status/1273388814963216385
An opinion column vs a new story from the Canadian Press?
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Old 06-18-2020, 12:17 PM   #59
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It's funny that partisan Canadians think the country's perception around the world is influenced by which party or PM is in power.

Quick: Who's the prime minister of Norway and which party does she/he lead?
I believe the discussion is primary centering around the country's perception amongst other world leaders to which they all know who Justin is and it's apparent he may not be as popular amongst his peers as he thought he was. You can walk through the doors and announce that Canada's back because you aren't the outgoing PM but at the end of the day your peers are going to judge you on your actions.
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Old 06-18-2020, 12:23 PM   #60
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An opinion column vs a new story from the Canadian Press?
Its the Globe in both cases...read the way they approached it, and feel free to tell me its not comparable.

Unfortunately it happens both ways in MSM now, which is a huge shame as many people dont get into the meat and substance of a story and go strictly by the headlines of what they see.
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