Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 10-18-2020, 08:14 AM   #1841
Roughneck
First Line Centre
 
Roughneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the middle
Exp:
Default

Something, something, social license...


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ium%3Dsharebar


Alberta premier says resource project financing depends on climate progress


Quote:
"I don't think Erin [O'Toole] is wrong to say that we have to find a way forward for our industry where we don't stick our head in the ground and pretend that the aspirations behind the Paris thing are not hugely influential in how capital is allocated and how market access decisions are made," Kenney said.
Quote:
Alberta is investing $1.5 billion in equity and $6 billion in loan guarantees in the Keystone XL pipeline, a project that Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden has vowed to kill if he wins next month's U.S. election.
In order to ensure Alberta's investment pays off, Canada has to show a potential new administration in the United States that the sector is making progress on reducing emissions, he said.
So in other words we've spent the last 18 months going in the wrong direction and only now they're seeing what we've known for years, and investors have been saying for years, and even the major multi-national energy companies have been saying for years.
Roughneck is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Roughneck For This Useful Post:
Old 10-18-2020, 08:17 AM   #1842
GGG
Franchise Player
 
GGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck View Post
Except this isn't building around German, Swiss, or French systems. It's building around the US one.



There isn't anything wrong with increasing private aspects of the heathcare system if done right. This isn't being done right.
How can you say a party resolution isn’t being done right? The application by this UCP government may be done wrong in the future. This particular tweet was discussing the party conference
GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 09:05 AM   #1843
Roughneck
First Line Centre
 
Roughneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the middle
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
How can you say a party resolution isn’t being done right? The application by this UCP government may be done wrong in the future. This particular tweet was discussing the party conference
A fair point, but all UCP and conservative talk in general about private healthcare options is lifted from American politics, much like their voucher system stuff for education. They’re not reading talking points from lobbyists representing French private health providers and managers.

So yes it could be done right based on the tweet and policy vote, but we know it won’t be as well.
Roughneck is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Roughneck For This Useful Post:
Old 10-18-2020, 03:57 PM   #1844
Yoho
Franchise Player
 
Yoho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
Exp:
Default

https://twitter.com/user/status/1317875894304841729
Yoho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 04:39 PM   #1845
GGG
Franchise Player
 
GGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck View Post
A fair point, but all UCP and conservative talk in general about private healthcare options is lifted from American politics, much like their voucher system stuff for education. They’re not reading talking points from lobbyists representing French private health providers and managers.

So yes it could be done right based on the tweet and policy vote, but we know it won’t be as well.
The private side of private healthcare is easy to implement. You just let companies do it The main issue comes in maintaining the funding on the public side. That is where the fight will need to be fought.
GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 05:46 PM   #1846
Roughneck
First Line Centre
 
Roughneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the middle
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
The private side of private healthcare is easy to implement. You just let companies do it The main issue comes in maintaining the funding on the public side. That is where the fight will need to be fought.

But that isn't how the systems in Germany, Sweden, etc. work. If the plan is 'just let companies do it' then it's a system designed to fail and be inefficient.



Germany has restrictions on who and when you get private insurance. Sweden has private providers operating under the council umbrella, France has a heavy pay-for-fee model (where private insurance is often used to cover those costs) but also built around an income based funding model, etc.



If the goal is to use private healthcare to make the system better for Albertans, then use private healthcare like the systems that have better service and outcomes, not 'just let companies do it.' It requires a comprehensive overhaul of the system in the province in how things are funded and implemented.
Roughneck is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Roughneck For This Useful Post:
Old 10-18-2020, 10:05 PM   #1847
Izzle
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Exp:
Default

UCP official party platform now includes separating from the CPP and instead going with an Alberta pension plan? Is AIMCO going to be managing this?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Izzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 10:25 PM   #1848
Voodooman
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck View Post
Something, something, social license...


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ium%3Dsharebar


Alberta premier says resource project financing depends on climate progress




So in other words we've spent the last 18 months going in the wrong direction and only now they're seeing what we've known for years, and investors have been saying for years, and even the major multi-national energy companies have been saying for years.
My favourite part of that article was...

Quote:
“In July, Kenney said he demanded Deutsch Bank provide reasons for its decision to stop funding oilsands and railed about the "misinformed campaign from European financial institutions."
Oh yeah, I’m sure they were quaking in their boots under the wrath of Donald’s mini-me. How do you say get bent little confused boy in German?
Voodooman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 10:46 PM   #1849
calf
broke the first rule
 
calf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzle View Post
UCP official party platform now includes separating from the CPP and instead going with an Alberta pension plan? Is AIMCO going to be managing this?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
I find it interesting with all these "provincializing" initiatives the UCP wants to do, EI never seems to be mentioned.


It's obvious why they don't, but I'd be curious what they'd say if asked
calf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 08:50 AM   #1850
Hot_Flatus
First Line Centre
 
Hot_Flatus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Uranus
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
It works better in
Germany, Sweden, Norway,Finland, UK, ......

Our system is the second or third worst of the major developed countries. The idea that any private system is bad is ridiculous. We also have a roughly 50% privatized system already given that para-medical, dentistry and pharmacy is all not funded.

A private option is reasonable.
In practice it could be. Insinuating that this UCP Government is capable of handling this kind of shift with any sort of competence and/or credibility is a huge reach to say the least, and this likely puts thousands of Albertans at risk of seeing their current health care get way worse while a few benefit from the private side.

If this takes shape, which I firmly believe is a terrible choice given the timing, I can't see any way that Kenny and his posse don't bungle this beyond reproach by skewering the existing system to death. They can't even handle the health and education systems tactfully without the threat of Covid or privatization, how on earth are they going to manage a transition like this on top of everything else?
__________________
I hate to tell you this, but I’ve just launched an air biscuit

Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 10-19-2020 at 08:55 AM.
Hot_Flatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 09:53 AM   #1851
The Fisher Account
Draft Pick
 
The Fisher Account's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default

Like.. was Kenney sent here to start dismantling Alberta and prepping for separation?

- New healthcare system
- Alberta Pension
- Alberta police force

I mean, it sounds ridiculous.. but this is all happening very quickly and seemingly quite calculated.
The Fisher Account is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to The Fisher Account For This Useful Post:
Old 10-19-2020, 10:10 AM   #1852
Ozy_Flame

Posted the 6 millionth post!
 
Ozy_Flame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Exp:
Default

One thing that irked me from the AGM was when Kenney was asked about his thoughts on Biden becoming President and what that means for KXL. He said a few thoughts, but basically said that the $1.5 billion and it was a risk.

I hope there is recourse to get that $1.5 billion back if it doesn't go through. That is precious cash this province can't afford to "risk" if the project gets canned. It will be an unbelievable lack of foresight especially if this investment decision couldn't wait until at least after the U.S. election.
Ozy_Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 10:12 AM   #1853
Locke
ness Monster
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fisher Account View Post
Like.. was Kenney sent here to start dismantling Alberta and prepping for separation?

- New healthcare system
- Alberta Pension
- Alberta police force

I mean, it sounds ridiculous.. but this is all happening very quickly and seemingly quite calculated.
Reading what happened recently I can see your point.

But as with all conspiracy theories, I'm forced to ask: "To what end?"

Unless Kenney is secretly best buds with Trudeau and they're doing this for a laugh.
__________________
- "Somebody may beat me, but they're going to have to bleed to do it."
- Steve Prefontaine
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 10:15 AM   #1854
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronck View Post
I'm sure if these were good, smart people you wouldn't hear about them at all. I had no idea who any of Notley's staff were, or what they were paid. On the other hand, look at the history of Matt Wolf-
-Was involved with the party election Kenney won under suspicious circumstances that is currently under investigation with the RCMP
- Essentially a Twitter troll who is usually either re-tweeting others in the party, or deflecting any criticisms of the UCP party with hyperbole but not much for facts- Most of the people he goes after are Albertans calling out the actions of the UCP
-Attacks anyone that disagrees with the party as NDP shills, or worse.
-Last week verbally attacked and doxxed and Alberta Dr's family, then said it wasn't a big deal

I'm sure theres more but that's off the top of my head- All this for only $220k per year (now minus 7%) and from what I can see, every UCP minister has their very own "issues manager" that acts pretty much the same
Sure, I get that.

But I'm sure we'd all agree that if you want someone smarter to replace him, you have to pay for that talent. And you have to setup a system long-term where good people WANT to get into politics for the right reasons.

And you won't get that if you want to bitch about 7% wage cuts.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 10:24 AM   #1855
CliffFletcher
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Exp:
Default

Weird seeing a party bull ahead with a slate of policies most Albertans don’t want. I guess they figure catering to their red-meat conservative base is the way to go.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze View Post
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
CliffFletcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 10:34 AM   #1856
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Reading what happened recently I can see your point.

But as with all conspiracy theories, I'm forced to ask: "To what end?"

Unless Kenney is secretly best buds with Trudeau and they're doing this for a laugh.
What do you mean "to what end?" This has been the Conservative goal for decades. Privatize as much as you can. Get control of everything. The police force, for instance, is to control protests over energy projects. The pension is so they can invest it where they see fit, and not deal with the big evil Feds. Privatizing medicine is to enrich their buddies, and reduce a massive budget item, who cares about the effects on people.

It's all blind ideology with no basis in facts. Any panels they put in to look at it have a predetermined outcome they are trying to validate. No smart decisions are being made that benefit actual Albertans.
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.

Last edited by Fuzz; 10-19-2020 at 10:44 AM.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
Old 10-19-2020, 11:01 AM   #1857
Wormius
Franchise Player
 
Wormius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewhere down the crazy river.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Reading what happened recently I can see your point.

But as with all conspiracy theories, I'm forced to ask: "To what end?"

Unless Kenney is secretly best buds with Trudeau and they're doing this for a laugh.

One word: Kenneyberta.
Wormius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 01:11 PM   #1858
edslunch
First Line Centre
 
edslunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fisher Account View Post
Like.. was Kenney sent here to start dismantling Alberta and prepping for separation?

- New healthcare system
- Alberta Pension
- Alberta police force

I mean, it sounds ridiculous.. but this is all happening very quickly and seemingly quite calculated.

Not sent to Alberta, but maybe brought to Alberta to start....

Or maybe this is the viable path he sees to being a national leader
edslunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 01:39 PM   #1859
Ozy_Flame

Posted the 6 millionth post!
 
Ozy_Flame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by edslunch View Post
Not sent to Alberta, but maybe brought to Alberta to start....

Or maybe this is the viable path he sees to being a national leader
If Erin O'Toole loses in 2023, I wouldn't be surprised to see JK take a run. These two are obviously stuck in each other's ear wax and are career politicians. Only thing is, if O'Toole loses, it validates that the current brand of Conservative politics - and by extension, Kenney's - is untenable and unlikeable majority of the Canadian populous.
Ozy_Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 01:39 PM   #1860
Flamenspiel
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
What do you mean "to what end?" This has been the Conservative goal for decades. Privatize as much as you can. Get control of everything. The police force, for instance, is to control protests over energy projects. The pension is so they can invest it where they see fit, and not deal with the big evil Feds. Privatizing medicine is to enrich their buddies, and reduce a massive budget item, who cares about the effects on people.

It's all blind ideology with no basis in facts. Any panels they put in to look at it have a predetermined outcome they are trying to validate. No smart decisions are being made that benefit actual Albertans.
So you believe that it’s a conspiracy, going on “for decades”? It’s ideology and also meant to enrich friends. Was Redford in on this too? What about Stalmach and Wild Rose Party? Did they not get the memo?

Last edited by Flamenspiel; 10-19-2020 at 01:44 PM.
Flamenspiel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Flamenspiel For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:09 AM.

Calgary Flames
2019-20




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016