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Old 08-14-2018, 12:29 PM   #21
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:35 PM   #22
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My favourite whatifism is: What if we just stopped talking about preconceived narratives, whataboutisms, fallacies, trading insults, etc etc and just had a normal conversation like adults?

Too much bad blood between posters. Erase it and start over fresh fellas.
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:43 PM   #23
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I think everyone would choose to go to school if they had the chance and the money to do so.
Norway has free secondary education. 18% of Norwegians don’t.
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:44 PM   #24
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Too much bad blood between posters. Erase it and start over fresh fellas.
Agreed. No thread-hopping either, that's how the creepiness started.
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:57 PM   #25
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I think the NDP should have looked at increasing PIT exemptions for low wage earners instead of focusing solely on min wage increases.
They could just stop taxing low income people to raise their standard of living but that would mean less revenue for the government and they don't want that, much easier to make promises and then force businesses to cover the bill. As a side benefit the increase in payroll means even more revenue for the government Yaaah!
The drop in jobs probably erases the benefit but that's not surprising with poorly thought out policies.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:12 PM   #26
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The unintended consequence here is much bigger than 25k fewer waiters. This really upends a lot of restaurant businesses to the point where the actual value of the business drops because of it. Consequently the value of the underlying real estate goes down. It's a real drag for property owners, lenders, business owners. You know...the economy.



I also wonder how many jobs created in Alberta were public sector in 2018. There was a huge disparity in 2017 which helps with Iggy's argument but not much else. I don't know if private has caught up yet.



I suspect Notley just wants to keep her promise no matter what. But a few minor adjustments would have been very smart.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:28 PM   #27
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The unintended consequence here is much bigger than 25k fewer waiters.
One sentence in and you’re making up facts?


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I also wonder how many jobs created in Alberta were public sector in 2018. There was a huge disparity in 2017 which helps with Iggy's argument but not much else. I don't know if private has caught up yet.
I’m sorry which argument of mine has anything to do with public sector employees?
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:35 PM   #28
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If I was making $8/hour it would give me a lot of incentive to go to school and getting something better. At $15 I might not need to.
The incentive isn't any different at $15 - but their ability to actually go to school is greatly increased.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
My favourite whatifism is: What if we just stopped talking about preconceived narratives, whataboutisms, fallacies, trading insults, etc etc and just had a normal conversation like adults?

Too much bad blood between posters. Erase it and start over fresh fellas.
You. Basic. Bitch.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:54 PM   #30
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Don't mess with the free market! The market knows!
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:59 PM   #31
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The incentive isn't any different at $15 - but their ability to actually go to school is greatly increased.
Not if their shifts are cut, or if their benefits are reduced, or if inflation makes necessary goods and services increase in price.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:22 PM   #32
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Not if their shifts are cut,
From $8/hour to $15/hour their shifts would need to be almost cut in half for them to come out further behind.

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or if their benefits are reduced,
Makes you wonder how so many jobs would be lost if employers could opt to simply reduce the benefits received by their the employees they choose to pay the minimum the law allows for. Unless of course the majority of minimum wage earners don’t receive benefits to begin with.

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or if inflation makes necessary goods and services increase in price.
That is happening regardless of whether or not the minimum wage is increased, so if you earn minimum wage and it isn’t being increased, you’re already falling behind.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:38 PM   #33
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Norway has free secondary education. 18% of Norwegians don’t.
I hope you mean post-secondary. Otherwise, is Norway a country of high school drop outs?
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:43 PM   #34
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I hope you mean post-secondary. Otherwise, is Norway a country of high school drop outs?
82% of Norweigans going to post-secondary graduate. 99.9% of Norwegians graduate primary school (from Wikipedia).
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:07 PM   #35
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From $8/hour to $15/hour their shifts would need to be almost cut in half for them to come out further behind.
Well nobody was making $8. The minimum wage when the NDP took over was $10.20 an hour, and $9.20 for employees serving liquor.

For an employee making $10.20 in 2015, a 32% reduction in hours erases any gain from a $15 minimum wage. At the current rate of $13.60, a 25% shift cut makes the wage increase irrelevant.

Of course, the results of a shift cut are worse for the significant proportion of minimum wage earners who work for tips (which are a function of hours worked). For a server earning $9.20 in 2015 with 50% of their income from tips (a conservative figure), a 24% cut in hours erases the gain from a $15 minimum wage and a 19% reduction erases the gain from the current $13.60 minimum wage.

This doesn’t even consider the aggregate impact of firms choosing cutting back on the number of employees. Which I'll get into later.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:15 PM   #36
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Oh no said BC, we'd rather bring fuel up the coast line from the States then transporting your oil to port by pipeline. Its our coastline they screamed we need to protect it.


Hows that taste



https://globalnews.ca/news/4386593/t...-fraser-river/
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:15 PM   #37
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82% of Norweigans going to post-secondary graduate. 99.9% of Norwegians graduate primary school (from Wikipedia).
Holy cow. I just read through the stats and only 82% of people in Norway graduate high school. And in Canada graduation rates are only 85%. I don't know why, I assumed the vast majority of people had at least high school.

The number of people with higher education is less than 40%
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:35 PM   #38
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Well nobody was making $8. The minimum wage when the NDP took over was $10.20 an hour, and $9.20 for employees serving liquor.
I was clearly going off of the figures that were being discussed in the thread.

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For an employee making $10.20 in 2015, a 32% reduction in hours erases any gain from a $15 minimum wage. At the current rate of $13.60, a 25% shift cut makes the wage increase irrelevant.
I find it interesting that you classify an employee earning the same pay for less hours of work as “irrelevant” or having “no gain”.

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Of course, the results of a shift cut are worse for the significant proportion of minimum wage earners who work for tips (which are a function of hours worked). For a server earning $9.20 in 2015 with 50% of their income from tips (a conservative figure), a 24% cut in hours erases the gain from a $15 minimum wage and a 19% reduction erases the gain from the current $13.60 minimum wage.
If server hours are cut, meaning there are less servers on every shift, but the number of customers remains the same would you consider it be unreasonable to assume that individual tips/hour worked would actually increase for the staff?

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This doesn’t even consider the aggregate impact of firms choosing cutting back on the number of employees. Which I'll get into later.
I can’t wait
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:46 PM   #39
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This doesn’t even consider the aggregate impact of firms choosing cutting back on the number of employees. Which I'll get into later.
Further to this, when middle class small business owners see their income decrease due to labour cost increases, they reduce their spending on rent/food/essentials. That shrinks the economy. It's simply transferring income from less likely NDP voters to more likely NDP voters.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:52 AM   #40
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Further to this, when middle class small business owners see their income decrease due to labour cost increases, they reduce their spending on rent/food/essentials. That shrinks the economy.
Where business owners spend less on those items(if they hypothetically did), their employees will spend more, and in more places. That actually grows the economy.
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