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Old 03-27-2017, 10:49 AM   #1
jayswin
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/libe...-pot-1.4041902

Figured I'd start a new thread as there's been discussion for a couple years but now we've got a date. It's definitely further away than I thought it was going to be.

Might as well add my post from the Canadian politics thread to add something to the discussion.

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Good legalize it, package it put it in liquor stores and tax the crap out of it.

I don't even really think its a thing for the whole criminal underworld anymore with the rise of opiates. Far more addictive, cheap costs, certainly less bulker and easier to smuggle. Plus every few months they can change the formula.
"Tax the crap out of it" is what everyone has said for years when they don't like it but begrudgingly admit that it's the right thing to do, but you can't do that. You tax it properly and accept that it's better for society to legalize it.

If you make it really expensive or tax the crap out of it you're going to lose business to the black market and then what's the point of legalizing it? The idea that the government is competing with drug dealers on price and potency of a drug sounds absurd, but.......the government is competing with drug dealers on price and potency.

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Old 03-27-2017, 11:15 AM   #2
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I think there's a lot of room for the government to charge more than the black market since most people are probably A-OK paying more to not have to deal with a dealer if they don't have to. The government can also capitalize on selling smaller quantities.

Judging by the prices on medical distributors websites they don't seem out of whack, I'd assume those will only go down with economies of scale.

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Old 03-27-2017, 11:20 AM   #3
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The only qualm I have with this is impaired driving. With alcohol, if your BAL is over a certain point, you are impaired according to the law. With weed, you can have the substance in your blood well after you've consumed it, and you are no where near impaired.

I'm not sure how they will police impaired (high) driving.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:20 AM   #4
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"Tax the crap out of it" also doesn't count for the larger savings to be had by provinces/federal in relaxes law enforcement and legal system savings. Not sure how many marijuana-related cases clog up our legal system, but this has to help.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:22 AM   #5
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I grew up without a dad because of a drunk driver.

I am very concerned that there will be impaired drivers because of the legalization and there is no roadside test. I'm in favor of a zero tolerance, however understand that it will show in your system for days after use. This creates a problem yet to be solved.

My preference is for legalization, but to wait to allow it until a roadside impairment test can be created.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:23 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame View Post
"Tax the crap out of it" also doesn't count for the larger savings to be had by provinces/federal in relaxes law enforcement and legal system savings. Not sure how many marijuana-related cases clog up our legal system, but this has to help.
Which is always intriguing to me.

If someone is in jail or has a criminal record due to a Marijuana-related crime is that absolved? Are they released?
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:24 AM   #7
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Which is always intriguing to me.

If someone is in jail or has a criminal record due to a Marijuana-related crime is that absolved? Are they released?
I'd be interested to know this, too. You think they'd have to, hey?
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:25 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
If you make it really expensive or tax the crap out of it you're going to lose business to the black market and then what's the point of legalizing it? The idea that the government is competing with drug dealers on price and potency of a drug sounds absurd, but.......the government is competing with drug dealers on price and potency.
Sure , in theory... but only in theory. I mean, I don't know anyone producing moonshine despite the fact that we tax the #### out of alcohol.

Legalization will result in multiple mass producers utilizing economies of scale to bring down production costs to levels that illegal producers just can't compete with. Taxing the crap out of it will probably just bring the consumer cost up to around what street level is now... but illegal distributors will probably lose so much market share that it won't be worth the risk to continue the trade.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:26 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
The only qualm I have with this is impaired driving. With alcohol, if your BAL is over a certain point, you are impaired according to the law. With weed, you can have the substance in your blood well after you've consumed it, and you are no where near impaired.

I'm not sure how they will police impaired (high) driving.
I don't see what is so wrong with having an impairment test that isn't based on a specific limit or measure and instead based on how you perform in an impairment test.

Pretty sure the people who will smoke weed and drive are already smoking and driving. Don't hear much about their being a problem with stoned drivers today.

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Old 03-27-2017, 11:26 AM   #10
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The only qualm I have with this is impaired driving. With alcohol, if your BAL is over a certain point, you are impaired according to the law. With weed, you can have the substance in your blood well after you've consumed it, and you are no where near impaired.

I'm not sure how they will police impaired (high) driving.
I think the answer is, until their is a reasonable technical test they use the standard roadside sobriety test. You can be impaired from all sorts of things that can't be tested for, and get a ticket for it. I don't see why marijuana couldn't be treated in the same way as, say, being impaired by cough syrup or being overly tired.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:27 AM   #11
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I'd be interested to know this, too. You think they'd have to, hey?
It stands to reason. Are there people in Jail in Colorado on Marijuana-related crimes?

I understand that it was a law when they broke it, but should they still be in jail or have a record for doing something that is now no longer illegal?
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:27 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/libe...-pot-1.4041902

Figured I'd start a new thread as there's been discussion for a couple years but now we've got a date. It's definitely further away than I thought it was going to be.

Might as well add my post from the Canadian politics thread to add something to the discussion.

CaptainCrunch -

"Tax the crap out of it" is what everyone has said for years when they don't like it but begrudgingly admit that it's the right thing to do, but you can't do that. You tax it properly and accept that it's better for society to legalize it.

If you make it really expensive or tax the crap out of it you're going to lose business to the black market and then what's the point of legalizing it? The idea that the government is competing with drug dealers on price and potency of a drug sounds absurd, but.......the government is competing with drug dealers on price and potency.
So you put up my original response, your answer to it, but not my response to that?
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:28 AM   #13
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Will former grow op houses get the remediated tag lifted from their listing info? lol Kidding. But this also is good for the real estate industry.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:28 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Which is always intriguing to me.

If someone is in jail or has a criminal record due to a Marijuana-related crime is that absolved? Are they released?
I wouldn't think so. It was illegal at the time of their conviction, so they still broke the law then.

Kind of like the opposite of the creosote thing with Domo. It was legal what they did at the time, so you can't go back and charge them for doing something legal then, just as you can't go back and uncharge a crime they did when it was illegal at the time.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Locke View Post
It stands to reason. Are there people in Jail in Colorado on Marijuana-related crimes?

I understand that it was a law when they broke it, but should they still be in jail or have a record for doing something that is now no longer illegal?
In Colorado, no, there are still people in jail for weed crimes. California recently legalized full adult use and part of their legislation allows people with previous weed charges to get pardoned and people who have weed convictions can still enter the industry legally.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
The only qualm I have with this is impaired driving. With alcohol, if your BAL is over a certain point, you are impaired according to the law. With weed, you can have the substance in your blood well after you've consumed it, and you are no where near impaired.

I'm not sure how they will police impaired (high) driving.
Right now there's no road side test for it, I think they've looked at things like pupil dilation an odor on your clothing but they don't have anything set. Also the blood test doesn't matter much because constitutionally you have a right to refuse a blood test. However I think in the States if you refuse to be tested your charged anyways.

I tend to think that there will be a tremendous amount of work that has to be done before April of next year, there will also be things like consultation with other nations because of treaty aspects. I think its overly ambitious to think this is going to get done in a year, but that's maybe just me.

As far as the prisoner question, I think that's amazing and I'm betting the courts are going to be absolutely flooded once legalization does happen, and how do you separate them. I mean lets say that you have a mere possession case that's easy. But are you releasing someone with intent to distribute? Or what about someone that had a violent crime attached to his grass conviction? Are we going to review what are probably 1000's of cases?

As far as my tax the crap out of it. I've said that it has to be equivalent to liquor and smokes, if not a bit more because there's a whole start up infrastructure cost that's going to need to be covered.As far as the argument that criminal gangs will undercut if the taxes are too high, its likely that they're going to undercut no matter what the taxation is as they don't have as high of a quality control requirement as legalized weed will have. As well I tend to think that the whole criminal element is moving away from grass and focusing on opiates anyways.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:38 AM   #17
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So you put up my original response, your answer to it, but not my response to that?
Sorry man, nothing backhanded meant. I responded to you and then immediately decided to start the new thread with our two posts being the kickstarter. It wasn't until I went back after that I saw a few responses and just asked if we could move the discussion over.

I just lazily didn't want to be the one to move everyone's posts over because I'm too stupid to be able to quote people in one thread and reply in another. I've seen others do it, but have never asked how, so I have to manually copy and paste.

But looking back, yeah I probably should have just at least threw your response over here for you since it was my idea.


*Too lazy to move three posts over, writes a novel as to why
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:38 AM   #18
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Poor choice of day. Gonna turn Canada Day into a total weedfest.

Obviously should have been April 20th, if only for consistency's sake.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:40 AM   #19
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Sorry man, nothing backhanded meant. I responded to you and then immediately decided to start the new thread with our two posts being the kickstarter. It wasn't until I went back after that I saw a few responses and just asked if we could move the discussion over.

I just lazily didn't want to be the one to move your posts over because I'm too stupid to be able to quote people in one thread and reply in another. I've seen others do it, but have never asked how, so I have to manually copy and paste.

But looking back, yeah I probably should have just at least threw your response over here for you since it was my idea.


*Too lazy to move three posts over, writes a novel as to why
No worries man, I was being a bit snarky.

Sorry bout that.

I did kind of expand on my response here anyways, and added some points as I thought about them.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:40 AM   #20
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Figured I'd start a new thread as there's been discussion for a couple years but now we've got a date. It's definitely further away than I thought it was going to be.
The timing is on purpose. If they legalize it sooner people will have moved on to other issues before the next election, this way it's still fresh in their mind. I'm actually surprised they didn't wait until the fall of 2018.

Will be interesting to see what the US has to say about this. Could cause border problems.
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