[PGT] Knights 4 Flames 0

[81MC]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Frolik passing to smith is when the flames lost their mojo. Then he missed an empty net and smith got injured. Whether you care to blame/fault him or not, 2 plays by frolik ruined this season in a lot of ways

Pretty sure an 82 game season of a team does not hinge on a minutes worth of play by one player.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Jetfire

I'll give it a try. The way I see it, this is squarely a .500 hockey team during GG's whole tenure that has relied entirely on crazy winning streaks to get anywhere at all, which in a sense has masked us being a .500 hockey team at heart. Last year we squeaked into the playoffs with a freakish 10 game hot streak. This year we climbed back in with a 7 game winning streak, but the difference is we immediately offset that 7 game winning streak with a 7 game losing streak and it spiraled out of control from there.

Another factor is that Vegas was not in the league last year and they are this year and have delivered the Flames 3 of their most disappointing losses.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by really?

IMO it's hard to question the drive and commitment of guys like Gaudreau, Giordano, Tcakhuk, Hamonic, Backlund and the often maligned Sam Bennett, but a number of the other vets are just a bit too tepid to make waves in today's high paced game. the Flames still have a number of guys who prefer to play the game at a lesser pace.

I distinctly remember Gulutzan bitching about some of the veteran guys during his stick throw incident, so you might be on to something there.

I have no problem with the compete level of guys like Johnny, Gio, Tkachuk, Backs, Bennett, and even Lazar and Janko. Those guys seem to bring it every night for the most part. I think the main problem for them is that they're stuck playing a rigid system that doesn't play to their strengths a lot of the time, and it seems to limit their skill and creativity. For example, the PP clearly hasn't gotten results this year and is arguably the worst in the league. And yet it took the coaching staff 3/4 of the season before they finally changed it up (slightly) with the addition of Hamilton on the 1st unit. Sure, it only worked for a few games because their overall system still sucks. But the fact that it took them that long to adjust or try something new is beyond baffling.

Also, look at how much Bennett's play improved when he was finally freed from his 3rd line shackles and moved up to the top line for that brief moment. It must have been an amazing experience for him to finally play with skilled linemates for a change. And that line looked pretty damn good for those couple of games they were together. Again, it took the coaching staff 3/4 of a season to figure that out. So damn frustrating.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

That would be really disappointing and would be on guys like Gio and the rest of the lettered guys.

You want to shake things up, trade your captain.

I don't think it's a out Giordano at all. If it's about what he's being seeing of late, we can form our own guesses by what we've seen on the ice.

Gaudreau, Giordano, Hamilton, Tkachuk, Stajan, and to a lesser extent, Bennett (effort without results as usual for him) have all been good to very good over the last stretch. Everyone else, below average to very bad. That includes Smith since H's return.

[calgarywinning]

I have no doubt in my mind the asset management of Bennett is way off track. Hope we don't Oil him and find a way to elevate his play and give him the proper opportunities. He's supposed to be a key piece at this point.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Pretty sure an 82 game season of a team does not hinge on a minutes worth of play by one player.

When the loss that followed was that devastating id say it’s lingered a little bit. That game against Vegas was where their mental weakness was really set in stone for the rest of the season. They don’t have more than what 7 wins since then?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think it's hard to deny the Flames looked good in the 1st period. The underlying numbers support it, too.

The problem is when this team faces any sort of adversity, they crumble. That's coaching. The Xs and Os look good, but that's only half of a coaches job.

The difference between the team's performance under the last two coaches is a credit to how much coaching influences the character of the team and players. Pretty much the same key guys as there under Hartley, with some good additions beyond what that team had, but the character is wildly different. Guys who seemed to be clutch and never give up have become totally milquetoast.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

The highlight of the game for me was the national anthem singer. It was all downhill after that.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Hartley was too hard. Gulutzan was too soft. I’m sure you can find a coach out there with an appropriate balance of both.

His name is Gerard Gallant. Unfortunately, he's taken.

[ASP#26525]

Well, that sucked....

Glad Formula 1 starts this weekend! Go Max Go!

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by minnow

The Flames lost their mojo that bye week.

The last two years have been extremely mediocre, buoyed only by a couple misleading win streaks. They didn't lose their mojo, they simply went back to being who they are after the bye week.

If Tre can't sign one of the big fish wingers like JVR, Kane or even Neal this summer, I don't think this team will have much of a better fate next season even if they can the coaching staff. The team needs a serious talent injection upfront to push players like Frolik, Ferland etc back down the lineup where they belong and is still way too soft to compete in this league.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Is it though? Since the 80s this club has been bad to mediocre, that's a span of almost 30 years. I think the culture top to bottom is very "country clubish". You always here people who've been successful say "I love to win but more than that, I hate to lose", or something to that effect and I just don't get that sense from the organization and it resonates down to the players.

It sucks to be a Flames fan, plain and simple. I will support and cheer for them till the day I die but I can't be negligent to the obvious truth.

I’ve never bought the “country club” theory. The chronic mediocrity has plenty of other explanations, but I think one of the main factors is the draft position and performance. With one exception, they have never done badly enough to pick in the top 5 in the first round. I don’t think there have been many (if any) top tier teams that haven’t also had picks in the top 4 or 5 positions within a few years of rising to top tier status. Th Flames have never had the luxury of drafting a potential star core player at that level.

Most of the Flames mid- or lower picks in the first round have been unimpressive, and until recently, the later round picks haven’t dazzled. And under Sutter (and now Treliving) they’ve traded 2nd and 3rd round picks away - these are the rounds where most of the diamonds in the rough are found.

[Strange Brew]

Loubardias apparently hinted that he hasn’t liked what he’s seen lately from some of the veterans. Who are this team’s veterans? Giordano, Smith, Brouwer, Frolik, Stajan come to mind. There are a couple of very strong competitors in that group, but maybe a couple who aren’t?

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Loubardias apparently hinted that he hasn’t liked what he’s seen lately from some of the veterans. Who are this team’s veterans? Giordano, Smith, Brouwer, Frolik, Stajan come to mind. There are a couple of very strong competitors in that group, but maybe a couple who aren’t?

Backlund should be on that list.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

I’ve never bought the “country club” theory. The chronic mediocrity has plenty of other explanations, but I think one of the main factors is the draft position and performance. With one exception, they have never done badly enough to pick in the top 5 in the first round. I don’t think there have been many (if any) top tier teams that haven’t also had picks in the top 4 or 5 positions within a few years of rising to top tier status. Th Flames have never had the luxury of drafting a potential star core player at that level.

Most of the Flames mid- or lower picks in the first round have been unimpressive, and until recently, the later round picks haven’t dazzled. And under Sutter (and now Treliving) they’ve traded 2nd and 3rd round picks away - these are the rounds where most of the diamonds in the rough are found.

Monahan was 6th overall, Bennett 4th overall, Tkachuk was 6th overall. All three could have ended up being top 3 picks.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Loubardias apparently hinted that he hasn’t liked what he’s seen lately from some of the veterans. Who are this team’s veterans? Giordano, Smith, Brouwer, Frolik, Stajan come to mind. There are a couple of very strong competitors in that group, but maybe a couple who aren’t?

I'd say Monahan, Johnny, Dougie, Benny are all vets on the team too. They've been here long enough to know what it takes to win in the league.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

I'd say Monahan, Johnny, Dougie, Benny are all vets on the team too. They've been here long enough to know what it takes to win in the league.

Lots of guys could be considered that. Backlund, Stone, Brodie, Hamonic, Versteeg. Veterans is pretty ambiguous

[Red]

GG is just looking for a scapegoat.

The advanced stats tell us that the team is playing well so it can't be on the players not executing the plan.

[DuffMan]

maybe the players are trying to tell management they're not happy with no additions at trade deadline, because they've been complete suck since then.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Loubardias apparently hinted that he hasn’t liked what he’s seen lately from some of the veterans. Who are this team’s veterans? Giordano, Smith, Brouwer, Frolik, Stajan come to mind. There are a couple of very strong competitors in that group, but maybe a couple who aren’t?

I would be calling out Backlund, Frolik, & Stone specifically as veterans .

Since Feb 1st at Even Strength:

- Backlund: GF: 12 GA: 20
- Frolik: GF: 11 GA: 21
- Stone: GF: 6 GA: 16

And Mike Smith with his .879 save percentage in that same time frame hasn't helped things.

In reality though none of the team has gotten results in that time frame. Abysmal shooting percentage, combined with a piss poor save percentage, and you get a complete collapse down the stretch.