[PGT] Knights 4 Flames 0

[Stud_McCool]

This season feels very Oiler-esque. Pretty embarrassing.

[Jetfire]

Originally Posted by Stud_McCool

This season feels very Oiler-esque. Pretty embarrassing.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Well, after 2 seasons it is very plain to see that Gulutzan 'has taken this team as far as he can'. Hartley took this team further with much less, and they were fun to watch as well.

Defensively the Flames have not gotten better. Offensively the Flames have not gotten better. They don't play harder.

They have gotten the best goaltending since Kiprusoff was here.

Too many times the Flames have started flat. Too many times they haven't had an answer for what the other team was doing. Too many times they wilted under pressure instead of pushing back.

There was ONE thing that I thought would last beyond the Hartley years. ONE thing that even Feaster stated at the start of the rebuild that I agreed with. What was it? That this team would play hard and not wilt under pressure.

Feaster called it a 'disease'. How this team would play great, and then suddenly not play great and start losing. How there wasn't this consistency in effort and execution.

Now say what you will about Hartley's tenure, but those Flames didn't roll over and die. They weren't very good, but it was not for a lack of effort. Now we have suddenly reverted back to the Playfair, Keenan and Brent Sutter years of just... being so damn underwhelming, especially when it matters most.

Gulutzan has to go. Treliving has to identify what ails this team and hire a coach that can actually change things. Gulutzan hasn't done much better compared to a rebuilding Hartley Flames. I bet Keenan (who I hate) would have probably got more out of this team.

I look at it this way if I am Treliving:

Team complained that the coach was too rough with them - hires a 'player's coach'.

Team responds by not playing hard consistently, or even being ready to start a damn game for about 30 contests... time to hire a hard-ass again.

I am not sure who out there will be willing to come to the Flames, but in no way shape or form should Gulutzan be returning. It has been two inconsistent years with two nice win streaks that make it look like things are headed in the right direction, only for the wheels to fall off. I don't need a third season to 'see what happens'.

For me, what this team has shown in the last 2 seasons is that they NEED to be kicked in the ass for them to be prepared every day, to work hard every day, and to actually have some damn resiliency. If the players tune-out the next coach because he is 'too hard', then I suggest bringing in someone even harder and say: "Careful what you wish for."

Treliving has a lot of work to do this off-season. Coach and trades/signings.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Well, after 2 seasons it is very plain to see that Gulutzan 'has taken this team as far as he can'. Hartley took this team further with much less, and they were fun to watch as well.

Defensively the Flames have not gotten better. Offensively the Flames have not gotten better. They don't play harder.

They have gotten the best goaltending since Kiprusoff was here.

Too many times the Flames have started flat. Too many times they haven't had an answer for what the other team was doing. Too many times they wilted under pressure instead of pushing back.

There was ONE thing that I thought would last beyond the Hartley years. ONE thing that even Feaster stated at the start of the rebuild that I agreed with. What was it? That this team would play hard and not wilt under pressure.

Feaster called it a 'disease'. How this team would play great, and then suddenly not play great and start losing. How there wasn't this consistency in effort and execution.

Now say what you will about Hartley's tenure, but those Flames didn't roll over and die. They weren't very good, but it was not for a lack of effort. Now we have suddenly reverted back to the Playfair, Keenan and Brent Sutter years of just... being so damn underwhelming, especially when it matters most.

Gulutzan has to go. Treliving has to identify what ails this team and hire a coach that can actually change things. Gulutzan hasn't done much better compared to a rebuilding Hartley Flames. I bet Keenan (who I hate) would have probably got more out of this team.

I look at it this way if I am Treliving:

Team complained that the coach was too rough with them - hires a 'player's coach'.

Team responds by not playing hard consistently, or even being ready to start a damn game for about 30 contests... time to hire a hard-ass again.

I am not sure who out there will be willing to come to the Flames, but in no way shape or form should Gulutzan be returning. It has been two inconsistent years with two nice win streaks that make it look like things are headed in the right direction, only for the wheels to fall off. I don't need a third season to 'see what happens'.

For me, what this team has shown in the last 2 seasons is that they NEED to be kicked in the ass for them to be prepared every day, to work hard every day, and to actually have some damn resiliency. If the players tune-out the next coach because he is 'too hard', then I suggest bringing in someone even harder and say: "Careful what you wish for."

Treliving has a lot of work to do this off-season. Coach and trades/signings.

Hartley was too hard. Gulutzan was too soft. I’m sure you can find a coach out there with an appropriate balance of both.

[FBI]

The only thing I'm looking forward to about the flames this summer is this thread:

Flames coaching stuff fired

I'll come back excited around mid September but this season was soul crushing in every way.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The mandate by the NHL has always been to keep franchises where they are. A couple other things are also factors. It is in the best interest of the NHL to expand to Houston rather than a relocation. The reason Bettman is pushing a new arena so hard is because he knows the market and knows they can make more money with a new arena. Expansion keeps the Flames making money as well as all the revenue from a new franchise. The Battle Of Alberta will pick up again and that is profitable for the NHL. I have seen nothing that says the Flames are losing money and until that happens I can't see the NHL wanting to re-locate the team. It also would look terrible on the NHL to go to the wall for a team like Arizona to keep them there while letting the Flames just up and walk from Calgary, especially when the team is still profitable. There are plenty of successful businessmen in Canada that would jump at a chance to own a Canadian team, I have no doubt about that. I have zero doubt at some point after the olympic bid is over the two sides will negotiate again and an arena deal will eventually get done.

That's not a hard and fast rule though and it not in the league bylaws, Bettman is the ultimate decided in terms of if he wants to push for local owner ship or not.

As far as the Flames being profitable, last year they had 5 million in operating Income, which has been in steady decline.

So while we sit here and say this team is profitable, its on a sliding scale as salaries go up and the Canadian dollar remains depressed. Also the Flames are going to take a multi-million dollar nearly pure profit hit because of no playoffs this year.


So again if Houston comes along and offers the Flames lets say $500 million and the team's current valuation is at $450 million with little chance of it increasing much due to a lack of a new arena, they're probably going to be tempted.

And Bettman probably won't be all that inclined to fight for the Flames staying in Calgary after the Mayor treated him like a cold calling salesman.

I think that people are being a little smug with the ascertain that the NHL is going to fight all that hard to keep a team in a city that isn't going to have a new rink any time soon.

They'll leave if the Flames owners decide to cash out.

And not too many local groups will jump eagerly into a bidding war unless there's a new rink.

Just my 2 cents.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Treliving has a lot of work to do this off-season. Coach and trades/signings.

Good news is he will have plenty of time to do this work since they won't be busy drafting anyone.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

That's not a hard and fast rule though and it not in the league bylaws, Bettman is the ultimate decided in terms of if he wants to push for local owner ship or not.

As far as the Flames being profitable, last year they had 5 million in operating Income, which has been in steady decline.

So while we sit here and say this team is profitable, its on a sliding scale as salaries go up and the Canadian dollar remains depressed. Also the Flames are going to take a multi-million dollar nearly pure profit hit because of no playoffs this year.


So again if Houston comes along and offers the Flames lets say $500 million and the team's current valuation is at $450 million with little chance of it increasing much due to a lack of a new arena, they're probably going to be tempted.

And Bettman probably won't be all that inclined to fight for the Flames staying in Calgary after the Mayor treated him like a cold calling salesman.

I think that people are being a little smug with the ascertain that the NHL is going to fight all that hard to keep a team in a city that isn't going to have a new rink any time soon.

They'll leave if the Flames owners decide to cash out.

And not too many local groups will jump eagerly into a bidding war unless there's a new rink.

Just my 2 cents.

Also Bettman and Edwards are very tight so that does not bode well.

[Otto-matic]

I just can't believe a one week bye week would have changed the entire makeup of this season.

You go from a massive winning streak to playing under .500 hockey for the rest of the season.

Was that the moment the team tuned out GG and Co? Are the players in a country club atmosphere again? Has the arena debacle trickled down into the locker room?

I have no idea but something needs to be done with this club over the summer.

[monkeyman]

Bettman does not make the final decision, that's left up to the BOG and I'm pretty sure they'd much rather have a 650 million expansion fee and the excitement the expansion draft and new team brings to the NHL rather than moving a profitable franchise in a strong market. Their goal after all is to expand the League, not stunt it.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

I just can't believe a one week bye week would have changed the entire makeup of this season.

You go from a massive winning streak to playing under .500 hockey for the rest of the season.

Was that the moment the team tuned out GG and Co? Are the players in a country club atmosphere again? Has the arena debacle trickled down into the locker room?

I have no idea but something needs to be done with this club over the summer.

Not trying to single you out because I've seen this posted here and there, but the country club crap always has been and always will be an entirely dumb explanation for why the Flames underachieve.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Not trying to single you out because I've seen this posted here and there, but the country club crap always has been and always will be an entirely dumb explanation for why the Flames underachieve.

Is it though? Since the 80s this club has been bad to mediocre, that's a span of almost 30 years. I think the culture top to bottom is very "country clubish". You always here people who've been successful say "I love to win but more than that, I hate to lose", or something to that effect and I just don't get that sense from the organization and it resonates down to the players.

It sucks to be a Flames fan, plain and simple. I will support and cheer for them till the day I die but I can't be negligent to the obvious truth.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

For those who wanted to keep score, since deadline

E. Kane 5G 5A 10p 8pim +5
C. Stewart -2

This team was already in self destruct more with or without Kane and would have continued the same path or worse with came. Let's not play that game and if the Flames paid a high price to get him and it didn't work out and in the end it caused cancer in the dressing room, that would be the worse case scenario. Flames got nothing for Stewart and I haven't even noticed him playing yet. So nothing gained and nothing lost.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

I just can't believe a one week bye week would have changed the entire makeup of this season.

You go from a massive winning streak to playing under .500 hockey for the rest of the season.

Was that the moment the team tuned out GG and Co? Are the players in a country club atmosphere again? Has the arena debacle trickled down into the locker room?

I have no idea but something needs to be done with this club over the summer.

The 7 game winning streak was a fluke. The bye week just brought the team back to the regular GG performance levels.

[minnow]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

The 7 game winning streak was a fluke. The bye week just brought the team back to the regular GG performance levels.

The Flames lost their mojo that bye week.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by minnow

The Flames lost their mojo that bye week.

Frolik passing to smith is when the flames lost their mojo. Then he missed an empty net and smith got injured. Whether you care to blame/fault him or not, 2 plays by frolik ruined this season in a lot of ways

[really?]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Hartley was too hard. Gulutzan was too soft. I’m sure you can find a coach out there with an appropriate balance of both.

Agree with the thought, but the fact that the players were handed a "player friendly" coach and didn't respond speaks volumes about where the soul of this team lies. IMO it's hard to question the drive and commitment of guys like Gaudreau, Giordano, Tcakhuk, Hamonic, Backlund and the often maligned Sam Bennett, but a number of the other vets are just a bit too tepid to make waves in today's high paced game. Vegas is a good example of all hands on deck digging in each shift. Hunting pucks, eliminating time and space and odd man opportunities built off pressure is needed in the current NHL and the Flames still have a number of guys who prefer to play the game at a lesser pace.

A change in coaches may be inevitable, but before the failures of this season are all laid at the coaches' feet, it would be wise to consider what the players are bringing to the table. If you have to constantly light a fire under someone to get them to compete, there is a strong possibility your not dealing with a competitor.

[browna]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

The 7 game winning streak was a fluke. The bye week just brought the team back to the regular GG performance levels.

Wasn’t a fluke. They finished teams off after dominating them, which was lacking before Christmas, and then that trend reared it’s head again after the bye.

If not for the timing of that bye, my guess is the Flames easily have 2 or 3 more points from the next 4 games, and LA one or two points less when the Flames beat them. As it stood, they got points in the next 4 after the bye but missed some golden opportunities to win at least 2 of those games, such as Buffalo and the Oilers and the Kings.

Then who knows what goes on from ther as far as momentum etc, but in a vacuum, Flames would be tied or ahead of the Kings, without playing much better, just carrying the momentum and playing style through a few more games.

Toss in the Vegas game here which was 2 mins away from 2 deserved points and ended with 0, and 2 seconds away in NYI from not losing Smith for a crucial time, the gamble not to pick up a backup at the deadline, and two or three below average goaltending performances as the Flames lost 4 right after the deadline, that Smith would’ve had 4-6 more points if he played.

But yeah, I agree the timing of the bye killed the momentum which would’ve had this team enough points and continued momentum, so that maybe the last week or so wouldn’t have been quite so desperate for points and with as much pressure on as it was and we’d be fighting the Sharks for second in the division.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Biggest difference was that we rode unsustainable OT and shootout records last year. They've normalized this year.

Second biggest difference was that Bennett was our 3C and it made us a better defensive team than people are willing to admit. Jankowski is a good center but I have observed him to not be as much of a rock as Bennett. On the PK, we went from Bennett-Chiasson + Stajan-Bouma with the occasional Bennett-Brouwer or Monahan-Brouwer to the cringey Stajan-Brouwer.

Third biggest difference is Hamonic being a huge offensive downgrade on Wideman and Stone. People continue to overvalue his defensive "contributions" but at the end of the day generating offense is what you need from guys and even Wideman generated more offense, and Stone definitely did.


Fourth biggest difference is that while our Dcore can move the puck now, it is almost counterproductive because it has eaten into our rush scoring. Last year we scored a whole bunch of rush goals with Engelland/Jokipakka/Bartkowski on the ice because those guys were such poor puck movers that we usually got hemmed in and then had to resort to surprisingly effective desperate measures. Not to confuse those guys with being effective, but they were bad enough to be a good offset to Gulutzan's cycle-obsessed system. Kulak is so effective that very few rushes happen now because he makes tape to tape exits.

Right now we have a roster that would thrive under Hartley more than any roster Hartley had.

1) the Flames are still an offensive threat when they get into OT. I think a lot of times, that's what the team is playing for - to either win by one goal or tie things up to go for OT. This has been their bread and butter for the past few seasons after their first year of rebuild. Except, teams will try to win it in the third period and not have to deal with the Flames in OT. so many games were lost by one or two goals this season because of this.

2) if Bennett was such a good center he would've been placed as the center over Mony or Backlund, but he got moved to the wing because he can't handle center duties. Janko is a way better center, and going forward in future seasons, Janko will be the Flames #3 center I wish people would watch the team as a whole rather than focus on individual potential. Janko is outscoring Bennett in every aspect as a third liner and being a center at that.

3) Hamonic was brought in not as an offensive D-man and he was not supposed to replace Wideman's point shot abilities.Hamonic is brought in as a stay at home d-man to defend on the right side either for 1st or second line duties. Hamonic was never known to be an offensive d-man. If anything, Hamonic replaced Wideman's inability to play defence. Stone was never a top 4 d-man anyway and he belongs in the third pairing as the right side d-man.

What Treliving and GG are trying to do is build this team with a balance of offence with defence, not just total offence and lack of defensive gaps like previous years. In prepping the defense the way it is now, Tre has neglected some pretty big holes on the right wings on almost every forward line. You know he's going to add depth and size in that area next season.

[zamler]

If all it takes is a few days off to torpedo the mojo and sink the season, well what else is there to say.