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Old 02-14-2020, 12:00 PM   #21
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I mean, credit to Ward for listening to his players. It's better than not listening to your players. But should it ever have gotten to a point where a guy like Backlund needed to come in and have a private discussion about his role? When he was playing center early in the season, yeah the finish wasn't there but he was still driving play. Once he was moved to RW he became one of the worst forwards on the team and we slipped to one of the worst possession teams on a nightly basis.

I'm glad that Ward is listening to his players. But I don't see that as value-added. I see it as value-not-subtracted.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:03 PM   #22
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I am usually skeptical about these mid season turning point situations. The Gulutzan, crack open a beer on the train ride thing was way overblown.

But I could see this actually being something. I sure hope it is.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:21 PM   #23
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I mean, credit to Ward for listening to his players. It's better than not listening to your players. But should it ever have gotten to a point where a guy like Backlund needed to come in and have a private discussion about his role? When he was playing center early in the season, yeah the finish wasn't there but he was still driving play. Once he was moved to RW he became one of the worst forwards on the team and we slipped to one of the worst possession teams on a nightly basis.

I'm glad that Ward is listening to his players. But I don't see that as value-added. I see it as value-not-subtracted.
I think it's a huge credit to any coach or manager that listens to feedback and adjusts. I think it's an even bigger credit to anyone who would take feedback as far as abandoning a plan and hitting reset. I think it's a sigh of relief to be listening to your players that have not been producing when it could be just as easy to point the finger back at them. One fear people must have in going back to a recipe that worked is suggesting that your involvement was to the detriment of the team

I think they saw that Lindholm could carry his own line, and I think they saw that the more ice-time you give Tkachuk the better. Backlund's production at wing and Johnny+Mony having difficulty without Lindholm were costly outcomes of the plan, but I didn't really think what Ward (inherited by Peters as well I think?) was on a bad path. Personally, I would be a bit worried if the team adjusting nothing after getting walked out of the first round.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:33 PM   #24
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Honestly thought he said "can't buy a ####### break" cause the puck rolled off the heel of the stick.
I had a similar interpretation to Gaskal.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:51 PM   #25
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I had a similar interpretation to Gaskal.
I posted the original clip yesterday, it was after the first breakaway when he got the shot off, not the second when it rolled, which lead me to believe it was the "I'm bad at breakways" one.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
I am usually skeptical about these mid season turning point situations. The Gulutzan, crack open a beer on the train ride thing was way overblown.

But I could see this actually being something. I sure hope it is.
Just reading the beer crack thing again makes me cringe in embarrassment.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:57 PM   #27
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Poor Johnny last night, after the flubbed second breakway you could see him going "#### me, #### I'm bad at breakaways!!" when the camera zoomed in lol. Once it rains it pours.
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Honestly thought he said "can't buy a ####### break" cause the puck rolled off the heel of the stick.
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I understand that they respected the ask from Lindholm, who basically said that if they were going to try him at C, he was willing but wanted 10-12 games.

At the same time, I thought that moving Backlund to the wing was obviously getting less out of him than they should have been.

Good to see them recognize the obvious

Also, some adjustments suggested by players were implemented by the coaches and are showing near term results.

Might the coach coming out and admitting they made adjustments finally throw cold water on the “It’s not on the coaches, the players just don’t want to put in the effort” narrative? I have my doubts
I've never said that coaches don't make a difference. What I said was the specific thing you think Ward is coaching, I don't think is the case. In particular it had nothing to do with line combinations. You were suggesting he was coaching D to D passes and dump and chase. I don't think that's correct. I think those were happening because of execution.

And Backlund on the wing was not a Ward innovation IIRC.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:00 PM   #28
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Gully was such a loser. Stick tossing. Brags about drinking beer. can barely get a team to the playoffs, where they then how out in 4 straight.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:01 PM   #29
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It's gonna take a lot more than 3/4 wins to convince me they're back. But here is hoping.
Especially considering 2 out of those 3 wins were against terrible teams. This team needs to get on a roll and start playing the same way against good, bad and average teams before i'm convinced.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:06 PM   #30
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Gully was such a loser. Stick tossing. Brags about drinking beer. can barely get a team to the playoffs, where they then how out in 4 straight.
That's pretty harsh. A, he's a good guy - his charity stuff proves that. B, the beer stuff was pretty real - the team was in a slump, he broke the ice to talk with them and they had a bit of a turnaround. He didn't brag, that's just what happened. The stick toss was an act, I'll give that. The 1st round exit was not good, but that year the Ducks were darned good. Getzlaf was PPG, Gibson was prime Gibson (not the shell we saw last night), and they had maybe the best top 4 D in the league. They went three rounds.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:06 PM   #31
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I'm glad that Ward is listening to his players. But I don't see that as value-added. I see it as value-not-subtracted.
I think it's more of a "value-add". How many coaches do you think listen to their players to the extent that they move the lines around like this?
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:15 PM   #32
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I feel like the following phrase got overlooked:

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“For them to come in and bring up some dicey subjects that maybe in some other areas they wouldn’t want to talk about, they came in and had the tough conversation."
I wonder what dicey subjects Ward is referring to. Somehow I feel like those are not on-ice hockey subjects, because if it was a on-ice or hockey issue, you'd totally want to talk about it with the coach, right?
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:18 PM   #33
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I think it's more of a "value-add". How many coaches do you think listen to their players to the extent that they move the lines around like this?
I would hope all coaches in the year 2020 are able to have a conversation with their players. There really aren't any ironfisted dictators left. Babcock might have been the last one.

Even Hartley in his last few years took a lot of feedback from the players regarding on-ice stuff. Clearly not enough re: systems but that was also four years ago and the league has continued to evolve.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:18 PM   #34
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I feel like the following phrase got overlooked:



I wonder what dicey subjects Ward is referring to. Somehow I feel like those are not on-ice hockey subjects, because if it was a on-ice or hockey issue, you'd totally want to talk about it with the coach, right?
I dunno - maybe he's just saying it's hard to come in and tell the coach "you are doing the wrong thing". Or it's off ice. Who knows, but if the latter, why would Ward even mention it.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:20 PM   #35
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I would hope all coaches in the year 2020 are able to have a conversation with their players. There really aren't any ironfisted dictators left. Babcock might have been the last one.
I heard an interview with Sheahan and he was asked about Tippet. From what he said, I think there are a lot of coaches who don't communicate with players. Mind you Sheahan did have Babcock before so maybe he was only referring to him.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:21 PM   #36
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I would hope all coaches in the year 2020 are able to have a conversation with their players. There really aren't any ironfisted dictators left. Babcock might have been the last one.

Even Hartley in his last few years took a lot of feedback from the players regarding on-ice stuff. Clearly not enough re: systems but that was also four years ago and the league has continued to evolve.
"Hope" yes, I agree. But that's not saying it's all coaches, nor even a majority of them. I just think it deserves more credit than you do.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:25 PM   #37
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"Hope" yes, I agree. But that's not saying it's all coaches, nor even a majority of them. I just think it deserves more credit than you do.
I guess I just see it as a baseline expectation of a coach these days.

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There really aren't any ironfisted dictators left. Babcock might have been the last one.
Well, actually maybe Alain Vigneult still falls into that category. But I think the vast majority of coaches do listen and react to feedback from their players.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:28 PM   #38
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I guess I just see it as a baseline expectation of a coach these days.
This I agree with, it *should* be an expectation.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:28 PM   #39
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I guess I just see it as a baseline expectation of a coach these days.
So what was your initial point then? You find it uninspiring that he listened to the players, which led you to think he's useless............but you also feel like listening to the players is a baseline expectation for all coaches. I'm confused.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:32 PM   #40
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So what was your initial point then? You find it uninspiring that he listened to the players, which led you to think he's useless............but you also feel like listening to the players is a baseline expectation for all coaches. I'm confused.
No re bolded, I never said that.

My initial point is it should have never gotten to a point where the players needed to tell him to change these things. I.E. He stuck to a failed experiment far too long.

The coach's job, at its core, is to bring ideas and strategies into the locker room to help the players succeed. If the only successful ideas are coming from the locker room(Backlund back to center, Johnny and Mony not playing with a career AHLer)... or from Injuries (Hanifin-Andersson) where's the value added?
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