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Old 02-19-2020, 05:06 PM   #41
cupofjoe
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^
Some good points there. I made some panels for my utility room for cheap, just to get something up there, but the main room I'm going to have to re-do sometime. What are the options out there? I don't want a drop ceiling that looks like my office at work...
Look up Embassy Ceiling, never used myself but they look sharp.
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:09 PM   #42
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Yeah, we are really happy with it, and cost of crown plus paint definitely less than any other 'traditional' way of finishing, including time
Uh, you just got a very enthusiastic thumbs up from Sliver. You need to re-evaluate your life and everything in it!!



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Old 02-19-2020, 05:15 PM   #43
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Did you spray it, or brush/roll?
Rented airless sprayer for weekend. Did use a brush for a few touch-ups, but almost not at all.

Had a guy finish drywall first, ready for painting.
Floors still as bare cement.
Did crown myself. This takes time, obviously, but not bad with laser level and help, and I've done crown before.
Drop film on all walls from top of crown to floor, overlapping, essentially making a Dexter like kill area. Only pot lights and a few electric boxes (drop light boxes and smoke detector box) were 'covered' . Everything else above crown was exposed and painted. Lit it up with portable light(s) and sprayed. Second coat next day. Spraying not fun, so many angles, but like everything else - not bad when finished. Did 2 coats. Easy to miss spots but as black covered well. White would be harder to cover well. Also important to note that it takes ALOT more paint than surface area. Finished part of basement was 1500 sq feet. Used almost 40 litres paint.
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:46 PM   #44
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Thanks, ya I sprayed my garage and went through way more paint than I thought I would.
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Old 02-19-2020, 09:19 PM   #45
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I do agree with many things in your post and the general point you are trying to make but you have errors in the above.

Cat6 can do 10 Gigabit on distances less than 55 metres (180 feet). 6a can do 330 feet. 180 is long enough for most houses.

Cat 7 is expensive and extremely uncommon in residential. It is about $0.65 ft as oppose to Cat 6 ~$0.13 ft, so approximately 500% more. It is thicker and harder to pull, so it would take longer to install.

As a professional, I would recommend either 6 or 6a. If future proofing is the main concern then conduit or perhaps fibre might be a consideration.

I have seen so many basements that are poorly constructed DIY projects. With proper inspection, the finished product would be detrimental to the sale of the home down the road. The persons that took on these projects lacked some combination of skill, patience, knowledge, and / or effort.

The point I am trying to make are good professionals will give proper advice and achieve a good end result. It takes a considerable effort, knowledge, learnt skill etc for DIY to pull off a similar result. It is certainly not impossible to do and I have seen many well-done basements by homeowners, but have seen many mediocre to poor ones as well.
Oops, I messed up the difference between 5e and 6/6a. My bad.

As a professional, are there any specific considerations when pulling cable based on the CMP or CMR rating of the cable for fire proofing/liability concerns and whatnot?
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:46 PM   #46
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Oops, I messed up the difference between 5e and 6/6a. My bad.

As a professional, are there any specific considerations when pulling cable based on the CMP or CMR rating of the cable for fire proofing/liability concerns and whatnot?
I don't know the rules extensively but it is a riser vs plenum rating (mostly for commercial scenarios). FT4 is the Canadian equivalent (for the most part) of the American rating CMR. This should be on any cables (CAT, speaker, coax etc) located behind drywall etc. It is pretty common for me to find non-rated speaker wires in the wall (gold lamp-cord style).

Plenum (CMP or FT6) is only used in spaces that are part of the HVAC system (spaces that facilitate air circulation for heating / cooling systems). This pretty much only found in commercial spaces.

There are rules around firewalls etc, but it is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Not really sure from a homeowners perspective on the liabilities of not using properly rated cable, best to talk to your insurance agent. Rated cable is not expensive and should always be used.

The some other things:

- keep distance between high & low voltage wires so there is no interference.
- try to keep 12 inches apart especially on parallel runs.
- do not use the the same holes in joist for both high and low voltage wires.
- be careful pulling network wire as it kinks easily and is generally more delicate than other low-voltage wire (particularly Cat 5e)
- conduit is your friend when it comes to future proofing media room / HT setups
- you need to use proper vapour barrier low-voltage boxes on exterior walls

Last edited by cupofjoe; 02-19-2020 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:33 AM   #47
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Another few points i picked up doing my basement:
-Home Depot is cheaper on an average day than Rona and Lowes.
-Buy your materials as you need them. I waited for Lowes and Rona to have their 15% sales on the weekends, order everything online Sunday night, pick up Monday and i had materials for a few weeks.
-Look at places like home improvement warehouse for doors, casing, baseboards, caulking and flooring. Way cheaper than the big three but selection is limited to certain items.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:01 AM   #48
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Another few points i picked up doing my basement:
-Home Depot is cheaper on an average day than Rona and Lowes.
-Buy your materials as you need them. I waited for Lowes and Rona to have their 15% sales on the weekends, order everything online Sunday night, pick up Monday and i had materials for a few weeks.
-Look at places like home improvement warehouse for doors, casing, baseboards, caulking and flooring. Way cheaper than the big three but selection is limited to certain items.
That’s wierd. I’ve switched to Lowe’s because of their lower prices on just about everything. I was loyal to home depot for a very long time. I actually find Lowes also has better stock and more products.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:10 AM   #49
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That’s wierd. I’ve switched to Lowe’s because of their lower prices on just about everything. I was loyal to home depot for a very long time. I actually find Lowes also has better stock and more products.
it may have changed over the last two years. Most of my purchases were Lowes or Rona because of discount.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:34 AM   #50
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Yes drywalled ceilings look nicer than a suspended ceiling but sorry, drywalled ceiling in a basement is big no go. Almost the entire guts of your house are in the basement ceiling. If you need access to absolutely anything you are out of luck. Sure you could cut out and patch drywall but do you know in exactly which spot the issue is coming from? Good luck matching the paint after the drywall fix. Think of all the things that you put up with in your house because it’s somewhere behind the drywall.

Drywalled ceilings are nice for showhomes to make it look pretty. They want to sell the house and could care less if you need access in the future.

Matter of fact if i’m buying a house and they have a ceiling drywalled in the basement i start wondering how many issues they’ve put up with because there’s no access.

Drywalled basement ceilings are a big no go.
If you have a 2 storey house you have almost as much utilities in the main floor ceiling as you do in the basement. How often do you need access to the main floor ceiling? I have had my basement developed with a drywall ceiling for the last 5 years and have had to access my ceiling exactly zero x. Sorry not trying to come across as rude I just don't get this argument. If you have an issue with a leak or a repair you cut it out and deal with it. I'm a drywall contractor and a professional can match it back up 100%.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:41 AM   #51
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That stuff is good for temp insulation, but is it for sound?

I’m also a fire guy so I’m unnecessarily against that stuff. It is a great product though, I just wouldn’t have it exposed in my ceiling. Its super flammable.
I'm not sure about painting spray foam as we have never done it, however I do know it 100% needs to be covered with a thermal barrier ie. drywall or a thermal spray. During combustion spray foam is highly toxic.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:49 AM   #52
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That’s wierd. I’ve switched to Lowe’s because of their lower prices on just about everything. I was loyal to home depot for a very long time. I actually find Lowes also has better stock and more products.
Personally I would try to avoid buying my materials from the big box stores. If you ask around and do a little research you can find out the suppliers of the professional contractors and save a lot. From my perspective the big box stores are about 20% more on materials and can be double the cost on accessories. On top of that they have very little knowledge if you need any expertise.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:25 AM   #53
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If you have a 2 storey house you have almost as much utilities in the main floor ceiling as you do in the basement. How often do you need access to the main floor ceiling? I have had my basement developed with a drywall ceiling for the last 5 years and have had to access my ceiling exactly zero x. Sorry not trying to come across as rude I just don't get this argument. If you have an issue with a leak or a repair you cut it out and deal with it. I'm a drywall contractor and a professional can match it back up 100%.
How much does it cost to fully repair and paint say three one foot holes in a ceiling? If i drywalled for a living and had all the tools to repair any damages myself i would drywall a ceiling as well. I like the fact you don’t lose headroom. But let’s be honest, there are times you need access to the ceiling area in the basement.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:31 AM   #54
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If you have a 2 storey house you have almost as much utilities in the main floor ceiling as you do in the basement. How often do you need access to the main floor ceiling? I have had my basement developed with a drywall ceiling for the last 5 years and have had to access my ceiling exactly zero x. Sorry not trying to come across as rude I just don't get this argument. If you have an issue with a leak or a repair you cut it out and deal with it. I'm a drywall contractor and a professional can match it back up 100%.
I understand you supporting the brotherhood, but this is untrue. If you have hvac or water lines running between joists in upper floor of two storey, somebody is doing it wrong.

Nothing wrong with drywall ceiling in basement if you never have leak or want to make changes. And mostly you don't.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:31 AM   #55
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I understand you supporting the brotherhood, but this is untrue. If you have hvac or water lines running between joists in upper floor of two storey, somebody is doing it wrong.

Nothing wrong with drywall ceiling in basement if you never have leak or want to make changes. And mostly you don't.
It's not about supporting the brotherhood as acoustical ceilings (ie T-bar ceilings) are part of my trade as well.
Also you're correct there should not be any mechanical in the second floor trusses (ie the roof) but there absolutely are heat ducts and plumbing pipes in the main floor ceiling of a 2 storey house.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:35 AM   #56
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:40 PM   #57
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In response to Stampsx2



I run my own drywall company and sub lots of these off to my tapers, serving leads from my texture guy. Depending on the texture pattern, this is either a three or four trip call at $100/trip (assuming easy accessibility; i.e. the work can be done off a trigger bench). Texture repairs are over and above this and usually billed as a "minimum trip", somewhere between $250-350.
Conventional ("popcorn") and heavy "spatter" patterns are usually a three trip drywall charge; "light spatter/orange peel" and knock-down usually need to be feathered out with a third coat to avoid flat spots or apparent bulges showing through the texture.
Another thing to note is that obvious discoloration in the existing ceiling can sometimes be a problem, requiring a full paint job to provide a uniform appearance and this can easily cost as much again as the drywall/texture repairs, depending on the circumstances.
Edit2: Worked back to the top of the thread. An 800 foot basement (living area) would cost you $5120 plus GST, and we would be out of your hair inside of seven calendar days. Provided that you have a double slider window in a long room so we can get 54" board and standard 12's and 14's into the basement. Almost all new builds these days are 108" minus slab.

Hope this helps, Ron

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Old 02-21-2020, 08:54 PM   #58
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Ceiling felt low in spots, even though walkout. Took the idea from Matrix basement system: crown along top of wall everywhere, paint everything above crown flat black. Any mods that need doing later can be repainted. It wasn't hard to do, kind of lol, though I dressed like forensic guy while painting.

How did you handle outside walls? Do you have batt insulation and vapour barrier or spray foam between the joists above the top of the foundation?
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Old 02-23-2020, 01:00 PM   #59
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I like that look but decided n instead used that sound-barrier insulation and dry walled it all in. Watching flames while hearing the kids and dogs upstairs sucked (pre-development) and now there is literally no sound, unless someone is stomping their feet.

This can be done with a drop ceiling as well.
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Old 02-23-2020, 03:07 PM   #60
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How did you handle outside walls? Do you have batt insulation and vapour barrier or spray foam between the joists above the top of the foundation?
Spray foam
I know we have all heard spray foam horror stories, but done properly, I wouldn't do anything else in basement.

And yes, if you are talking sound barriers or flame ######ant the painted ceiling does neither.

Ha apparently need a word that means slowing the spread of fire that is different from above. Lol

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