Calgary Flames General Manager Ranking - #2

[Bingo]

#1 - Cliff Fletcher

Round one created a lot of debate, that was good to see.

[Bingo]

I read all of round one before posting round two ... so many good arguments.

If I hadn't read I don't think I would have had Coates on the mind, but it's hard to ignore how well he did in moving assets in the bleakest of times. Sutter was like a phoenix ... a big rise and a spectacular fall. Treliving has a calmness and professional feel that I appreciate. I think he's done well drafting and with RFAs, I like most of his trades. But his UFA signings have hurt him.

I'm going Coates.

[Freeway]

Coin-toss between Treliving and Coates. Went Coates, as he basically had to sell off assets to keep the team afloat and try to keep them competitive.

[btimbit]

Have to echo a lot of Bingo's thoughts. An interesting decision

Don't remember much of Coates, Sutter's early years were great but his later years reeked of desperation. I really like Treliving so far but some big misses on the UFA market can't be ignored.

Abstaining for now to see some other posters make their arguments, as all I know for sure is that it definitely isn't Feaster or Button

[BigT112]

This is admitted recency bias for me as I really don't remember Coats' term as GM, but I went with Treliving. Decent drafting and a amazing returns for most of the trades he's made. Not that great with UFA signings which is a knock on him. He's definitely made the Flames better in his term as GM, he now only needs to hire a decent coach and this team could go from playoff bubble team to contender.

[Strange Brew]

I like Bingo's comment about viewing Sutter as a phoenix. That's right way to look at it and that's why I'm taking him. Without the rise that Sutter has significant responsibility for, just imagine the current state of the franchise. He built some of the best teams we have seen around here.

I believe Treliving gets a lot of the credit because of the calmness and image he projects vs. the actual moves he has made. This is understandable. His drafting has been solid and the Carolina trade was a beauty. But the struggles with goaltending, getting fleeced by Garth Snow, and the draft pick spending bother me. And for all of BT's projected thoughtfulness, it's hard to see what the actual long term plan is.

I have to be honest. I lost a lot of interest in following the Flames when Coates was GM. Having moved away from Calgary and before all games were so accessible. I need to look at what he did more closely.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Coates. He just did so much with so little. He ran into some bad luck with player development that could have made a massive difference. I wonder how things would have fallen into place had Daniel Tkachuk had not suffered that concussion.

My big knock against Treliving is he has yet to establish an identity for this team and that is a huge problem. Even his big moves have been a mixed bag. His inability to select a head coach is such a failure that it has to knock him well down the list.

[Crown Royal]

I should vote Burke, just because he didn't really #### anything up

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I read all of round one before posting round two ... so many good arguments.

If I hadn't read I don't think I would have had Coates on the mind, but it's hard to ignore how well he did in moving assets in the bleakest of times. Sutter was like a phoenix ... a big rise and a spectacular fall. Treliving has a calmness and professional feel that I appreciate. I think he's done well drafting and with RFAs, I like most of his trades. But his UFA signings have hurt him.

I'm going Coates.

I can agree with most of this actually. Think BT's trades are overrated though. The Hamilton ones were good but what else? Good rfa deals. Bad ufa deals. Sutter's highs are higher, lows are going to be lower. BT's approach was probably helped by growing up in a corporate atmosphere. I appreciate Sutter's gruff no-nonsense approach more than BT's carefully moulded public image. I'm a results guy, and BT had an opportunity that Sutter didn't. To come in a paint on a mostly blank canvas. I don't like the picture we are seeing right now personally. He had some runway I'm assuming but didn't really use it, mostly thanks to 2015. I wonder if the owners meddled after that? We went from calm rebuild to 'contender' remarkably fast... too fast. BT needed to convince the owners that 2015 wasn't sustainable and more picks were needed in order to ensure sustained long term success. Tough task probably but managers have to manage their managers at times.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I should vote Burke, just because he didn't really #### anything up

His finger prints are all over the 2014 draft. That draft was crucial and the Flames traded a pick for Bollig and then proceeded to draft a pile of big lumbering tough guys after round 1.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I said it in the other thread. Sutter basically revitalized the franchise

Remember they were 7 years of no playoffs

Not just Kipper which turned out to be the steal of a GM’s lifetime, but adding Warrener, Reinprecht, Simon, Nilson, Niemenen - he built a supporting cast around Iggy that gelled, made it to the playoffs, and basically won the Cup (it was in)

Then for several years thereafter, they were perennial contenders. The team always had an identity. Although the drafting wasn’t great, he was going for it, and brought in productive players like Cammalleri, Tanguay, high profile guys like Jokinen and Bouw, and some nifty steals like Huselius and Rene Bourque

Still can’t believe the bad fortune in 2009 with all of those injuries, because that was the best lineup seen in this city this millennium.

Treliving teams have not had an identity, and he has not gotten the results on the ice. Drafting has been better, but as for the high can’t miss picks, you get a Tkachuk because the previous year on ice was abysmal, and because the Oilers and Canucks screw up.

Sutter all the way. I can’t let his last year, and whatever the heck Phaneuf did that saw him need to go, take the shine off of the “In Sutter We Trust” red mile days that revitalized the franchise

Brad needs some kind of on ice success, any kind, before he is even in the conversation.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I said it in the other thread. Sutter basically revitalized the franchise

Remember they were 7 years of no playoffs

Not just Kipper which turned out to be the steal of a GM’s lifetime, but adding Warrener, Reinprecht, Simon, Nilson, Niemenen - he built a supporting cast around Iggy that gelled, made it to the playoffs, and basically won the Cup (it was in)

Then for several years thereafter, they were perennial contenders. The team always had an identity. Although the drafting wasn’t great, he was going for it, and brought in productive players like Cammalleri, Tanguay, high profile guys like Jokinen and Bouw, and some nifty steals like Huselius and Rene Bourque

Still can’t believe the bad fortune in 2009 with all of those injuries, because that was the best lineup seen in this city this millennium.

Treliving teams have not had an identity, and he has not gotten the results on the ice. Drafting has been better, but as for the high can’t miss picks, you get a Tkachuk because the previous year on ice was abysmal, and because the Oilers and Canucks screw up.

Sutter all the way. I can’t let his last year, and whatever the heck Phaneuf did that saw him need to go, take the shine off of the “In Sutter We Trust” red mile days that revitalized the franchise

Brad needs some kind of on ice success, any kind, before he is even in the conversation.

Bang on

[Poe969]

The fact that Treliving is viewed as the second best GM the team has had really doesn't look good for the team IMO. This team has been average at best and it seems to have become acceptable. The team hasn't done anything to show they can take the next step and it hasn't been set up for a good rebuild either. This team is just average.

EDIT: picked Burke because for a while he was the most entertaining part of the team.

[Erick Estrada]

Coates for me. He could recognize talent very well and simply didn't have the resources to retain talent. He also worked under by far the worst circumstances of any other GM with internal power struggles and ownership unable to spend enough to ice a competitive roster. Drafting wasn't great but if you read into it you will find that it was a messy situation with too many cooks in the kitchen as Ron Bremner was in way over his head running a hockey team.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Poe969

The fact that Treliving is viewed as the second best GM the team has had really doesn't look good for the team IMO. This team has been average at best and it seems to have become acceptable. The team hasn't done anything to show they can take the next step and it hasn't been set up for a good rebuild either. This team is just average.

EDIT: picked Burke because for a while he was the most entertaining part of the team.

I am blown away people see it this way. Six years. No real success. Currently a middling bubble team that looks to be 'stuck in the middle'for the foreseeable future? What's to like about that? At what point is BT expected to deliver sustained success? Shouldn't that be part of the evsluating criteria? We are as close to bottom 5 as we are to top 5 with no hope of really improving because we have no 1C and no 1G. Our 1D could fall off at any point. It is unsure if we actually have any true top pairing guys after him. The three year outlook looks like crap to me.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Would love to hear the rationale behind the Jay Feaster vote

I can offer that he was a nice guy, took a picture of me with Conroy

But I still went Sutter

[Sylvanfan]

Sutter got a goaltender and had the team in the playoffs for 5 years in a row.

He went out a bit bleakly but I think he was unlucky at times. The injuries in 2009 derailed a pretty good team. Getting the 26 pick in that 05 draft lottery was also a bit of misfortune.

He did make the team somewhat relevant again and to me that's worth more than a guy who could acquire some talent but ultimately never put a competitive team on the ice like Coates.

Treliving I think is pretty overrated as his free agent signings are bad. His trades are mediocre at best and his drafting is highly regarded today but it's based a bit more on optimistic projections than it is on real results. Give that Hamilton trade two more years and the Flames might be out the top two players in that trade.

Button.. just awful...he should be last place.

[CroFlames]

I've been saying Trelaving for so long ironically making fun of Derek Wills, now I can't stop saying it.

I'm living in a nightmare I created and I can't get out of.

Voted for Trelaving.

[agulati]

I voted for Sutter. Yes the end of his career was marred by some bad trades, and his drafting is suspect, but he did pick up some spectacular players on the cheap and was instrumental in taking the team to the finals in 2004.
Treliving is getting there though. Some more playoff/regular season success and I can see him overtaking Sutter when it comes to my vote.

[Strange Brew]

No doubt Treliving wins this round, for the same reason Brodie voted as one of the franchise's all time great defensemen over HOFers and a guy that nearly won a Norris and a Calder while playing here.

I suppose Ward to be considered one of the all time great coaches too.