Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau Appreciation thread

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Must be me then? Monahan is atrocious at controlled entries (worst on the team?) but last night seemed particularly ugly to me. I have no doubt that some of it is due to having Johnny as a linemate. When Johnny is on the ice, just give him the puck kind of thing. Gaudreau ranks as one of the best in the league at it. Anyway, I hope Monahan continues to work at it.

You mean like when Monahan was carrying it in and Johnny went offside? I noticed it

Yeah, Monahan was the worst

[SportsJunky]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean smarty pants.

I will say this though, after further digging I found stats that show when Monahan does make a zone entry there is a good probability that it will result in a scoring chance. In fact, he leads the Calgary forwards in this category.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean smarty pants.

I will say this though, after further digging I found stats that show when Monahan does make a zone entry there is a good probability that it will result in a scoring chance. In fact, he leads the Calgary forwards in this category.

I have previously speculated on this but I would love to have these stats- where did you find them?
IMO it takes advantage of two of each others skillsets that neither actually gets to use when they're overcoached and used in the way a lot of fans see them (Johnny=Wizard, Monahan=sniper/triggerman.) Monahan has really underrated vision and passing ability, while johnny is incredible at slipping the d and getting open in a dangerous area.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

According to Jiri, things like that aren't important enough to have a thread. So shut up, because reasons.

I've clarified what i meant. Please stop mis-representing what I said and attributing things to me that I have not said.
You can quote my words. Don't make up things I didn't say. I didn't say anything about how important the topic is. Nor did I tell someone to shut up.
So knock off the "according to Jiri" when those are not things I said.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There was exactly ONE post in the thread when you did that.

And yes, you did say there shouldn't be a thread praising Monahan and Gaudreau, because the players in question are not worthy of such a thread. That is the exact meaning of your words. I'm not reading anything beyond what you said.

I ABSOLUTELY did NOT say this.
I said they weren't worthy of the thread-specific praise.
That is different than saying this thread shouldn't exist.

Perhaps I could have worded it more clearly. But I've since clarified. So you continuing to mis-represent my point is not adding anything.

To be 100% CLEAR.

I DID NOT SAY NOR AM I SAYING NOW THAT THIS THREAD SHOULDN'T EXIST. Rather I disagree with the basic premise of the thread itself - which is the level of praise being heeped on the players.

We can debate that second point, but please move past your mis perceptions of what I was trying to communicate.

Let me put it another way.

Someone starts a thread about how much they love cake. They love cake so much that they think it deserves it's own thread.
Someone else comes in and says "Yeah Cake is great, but I don't think cake is as great as you think, I don't think it's so great that it merits its own thread about how great cake is".
Someone else comes in and says "This thread is dumb and shouldn't exist".

Very different things.
The first is someone debating the premise of how great cake is. The second is someone saying a thread shouldn't exist.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

...Let me put it another way.

Someone starts a thread about how much they love cake. They love cake so much that they think it deserves it's own thread.
Someone else comes in and says "Yeah Cake is great, but I don't think cake is as great as you think, I don't think it's so great that it merits its own thread about how great cake is".
Someone else comes in and says "This thread is dumb and shouldn't exist".

Very different things.
The first is someone debating the premise of how great cake is. The second is someone saying a thread shouldn't exist.

Crazy talk. Who doesn't love cake enough to miss the chance to start a thread about it?

[Strange Brew]

Arguing about the criteria for "thread worthy praise". Where does this rank compared to the debate about Rick Ball's resume and the definition of .500?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Arguing about the criteria for "thread worthy praise". Where does this rank compared to the debate about Rick Ball's resume and the definition of .500?

Below. Well below.
I just don't like people mis-quoting or misrepresenting things I say.
I'll be done now.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I've clarified what i meant. Please stop mis-representing what I said and attributing things to me that I have not said.
You can quote my words. Don't make up things I didn't say. I didn't say anything about how important the topic is.

You said the topic does not deserve a thread. And your so-called clarification amounts to saying, ‘I didn't actually mean what I said, I meant something else and I'm not telling you what it is.’

Nor did I tell someone to shut up.
So knock off the "according to Jiri" when those are not things I said.

I know exactly what you said. What you think you meant did not come across in the words you actually typed.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I ABSOLUTELY did NOT say this.
I said they weren't worthy of the thread-specific praise.
That is different than saying this thread shouldn't exist.

No, it is not. It is exactly the same. The specific purpose of this thread was the praise that you said was not worthy of a thread. That is PRECISELY saying there should not be such a thread.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You said the topic does not deserve a thread. And your so-called clarification amounts to saying, ‘I didn't actually mean what I said, I meant something else and I'm not telling you what it is.’

I think you are quibbling. Here is exactly what Jiri said:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

...Not worthy of thread-dedicated praise yet. Trending in the right way, but they should be held to a higher bar.

I get how you read it, but it is also equally appropriate to understand the clause exactly as Jiri has qualified it: "thread dedicated praise" is a description of the level of enthusiasm invested in the topic, and not necessarily the topic itself. Besides, he has left himself open also to the possibility of that changing in the near future.

[Jay Random]

I would say that was fair, except that he said those things after ONE post. He jumped to a conclusion from the mere fact that the thread existed, before there was anything else to be said about it.

To use his own metaphor, he said ‘pump the brakes’ when the car hadn't even been started. That signifies a strong desire not to go anywhere.

[blender]

This engaging back-and-forth is an act, right?
Like a comedy routine? It is a bit hackneyed though, as it seems like a re-hash of the classic "Who's on first?" bit.

[Macho0978]

Even though I agree both johnny and Monahan have looked great I think we need to consider this unique season and the strength of our schedule. 3 of the worst 6 teams in goals against are in the north and the Flames have the best 11th in the league. Toronto ranks 13th and is the best we have to face. This is a run and gun division with some awful defensive teams. Also no Vegas stlouis Colorado Dallas Anaheim Nashville. Teams that are big and tough match ups for johnny especially. I expect they both could have career years in ppg. But I expect them to be there or better considering the pad your stat teams they get to play nightly.

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I ABSOLUTELY did NOT say this.

Someone starts a thread about how much they love cake. They love cake so much that they think it deserves it's own thread.
Someone else comes in and says "Yeah Cake is great, but I don't think cake is as great as you think, I don't think it's so great that it merits its own thread about how great cake is".
Someone else comes in and says "This thread is dumb and shouldn't exist".

Very different things.
The first is someone debating the premise of how great cake is. The second is someone saying a thread shouldn't exist.

The bolded part is what most of us people coming into this thread don't agree with. I came in here looking for positivity about two players that have been playing well so far. Not to wonder if you thought they deserved the praise or not.

[bubbsy]

They absolutely deserve kudos. They have played really well here to start.

Gaudreau back to his high end, puck carrying ability. Monahan is definitely competing extremely hard. Was very pleased how well he played against Auston Mathews last game.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

They absolutely deserve kudos. They have played really well here to start.

Gaudreau back to his high end, puck carrying ability. Monahan is definitely competing extremely hard. Was very pleased how well he played against Auston Mathews last game.

Fun stats but here are Gaudreau/Monahan head to head against Matthews line the last two games.

TOI: 7:28

Corsi For: 11
Corsi Against: 5
Corsi %: 68.9%

HDCF: 4
HDCA: 1
HD Corsi%: 80%

xGF%: 70.4%

GF: 1
GA: 1

And against the Tavares line:

TOI: 12:15

Corsi For: 13
Corsi Against: 9
Corsi %: 59.1%

HDCF: 2
HDCA: 2
HD Corsi%: 50%

xGF%: 63.9%

GF: 1
GA: 0

So they actually did a pretty good job against both of the Leafs top centers and took the play to them overall. If they can keep that up against other teams top lines that provides this team with a whole new look this year because generally they were caved in against other teams top lines in the past.

[Monahammer]

Good luck tonight Gaudreau and Monahan! We are all cheering for you to chase Carey Price this evening.

[Boreal]

I was going to say that they’re doing better because of zone starts, but that’s not really seen in the data on hockey reference. On the Fan960 Pinder has been spouting that Ward is the 1st coach since Hartley to shelter them. Based on Monahan’s zone start data 2014-15 under Hartley was his lowest year of Offensive zone Starts at 47.4%

This year he is at 58.8% and his highest was 2016-17 under Gulatzan at 61.3%

Maybe Pinder is pulling data from elsewhere or talking out of his butt.

[CroFlames]

My two favorite Flames of all time are Jarome Iginla and Sean Monahan.

So yeah, I appreciate him.

I like Johnny too, but with Monahan, it's love.