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Old 02-12-2019, 09:04 PM   #1
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Default Bolts 6 Flames 3

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Bolts 6 Flames 3

- Rittich average
- Calgary top players owned
- Monahan finds the net twice
- Lindholm gets three points
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:12 PM   #2
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Flames average? Rittich average? Spreadsheet take.

Flames below average. TB close to perfect. Domimant. Rittich decent.

If your answer is ‘how can you let in 6 goals and be decent?’ then you have a spreadsheet take. At least 4 of those goals were unstoppable, and he had pretty much below average chance on the other two.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:14 PM   #3
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Rittich wasn't good, get over it...he feels the same way, just said so
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:17 PM   #4
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On the other side of the argument, a top goalie needs to make all of the easy ones, 99% of the average shots, and a good 90% of the tough ones. That isn’t happening these days.
P.S. Check your math. If that’s your standard, then that explains why Rittich was average lol
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:22 PM   #5
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Rittich wasn't good, get over it...he feels the same way, just said so
Yeah, of course he is going to say that. Goalie mindset is that you should have everything.

First goal? I was driving back from the grocery store and heard Loubo basically say that no human stops it. (Validated when I saw it at home)
Stamkos one timer? Pfft, you stop it.

Rittich wasn’t unreasonably great.

Go ahead, look at every goal, and tell me which he should have stopped

And don’t default back to the worst argument ever, where you throw situation out and just say that you just have to stop at least 90 percent of all shots
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
Yeah, of course he is going to say that. Goalie mindset is that you should have everything.

First goal? I was driving back from the grocery store and heard Loubo basically say that no human stops it. (Validated when I saw it at home)
Stamkos one timer? Pfft, you stop it.

Rittich wasn’t unreasonably great.

Go ahead, look at every goal, and tell me which he should have stopped

And don’t default back to the worst argument ever, where you throw situation out and just say that you just have to stop at least 90 percent of all shots
Fourth goal wasn't good...put your stick down, went right through him.

Also, no BSD's

He certainly didn't cost them the game but he didn't help much either. Smith will get the next game (which is terrifying)
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:44 PM   #7
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Fourth goal wasn't good...put your stick down, went right through him.

Also, no BSD's

He certainly didn't cost them the game but he didn't help much either. Smith will get the next game (which is terrifying)

Yeah, I saw some really good saves.

Stamkos one timer on the PP, left pad save.
Forget if it was Kucherov or Hedman, but right shoulder save.
The guy in the third who cut across the crease and he followed.

Lots of really good saves, actually

That 4th goal was a tiny gap that opens up, shooter got as lucky as the goalie got unlucky. Split second timing. It happens. Where did the puck come from and when did it arrive?

Goals happen. That was at best a ‘could have’, not a ‘should have’ had it.

I evaluate goalies differently than spreadsheet jockeys (not you, just sv% referencing critics)
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:51 PM   #8
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Mentioned on 3 different occasions to Bolts fans that it was in.

They had no clue what I was talking about.

When I took my seat I was happy to be sitting by a Flames fan. But as the game progressed she became louder and more obnoxious- saying Floridians knew nothing about hockey, pissing everyone off around her.
I basically told her to stfu I think the Tampa fans around me appreciated it. It was embarrassing to wear the same jersey as her.

Unfortunately every team has bad fans.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:19 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
Flames average? Rittich average? Spreadsheet take.

Flames below average. TB close to perfect. Domimant. Rittich decent.

If your answer is ‘how can you let in 6 goals and be decent?’ then you have a spreadsheet take. At least 4 of those goals were unstoppable, and he had pretty much below average chance on the other two.
He gave up six goals on 27 shots and you think Rittich was decent?

The Flames had a fairly good first, and against a less dominant team they likely come out all right. Line change goal hurt them, and the third goal was pretty unlucky. So yeah average and it's my opinion ... pretty clear actually as my name is at the top of it ... so save me the spreadsheet BS it's a pretty disrespectful response.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:48 AM   #10
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He gave up six goals on 27 shots and you think Rittich was decent?

The Flames had a fairly good first, and against a less dominant team they likely come out all right. Line change goal hurt them, and the third goal was pretty unlucky. So yeah average and it's my opinion ... pretty clear actually as my name is at the top of it ... so save me the spreadsheet BS it's a pretty disrespectful response.

Sorry that you are offended. Doesn’t help to come back with shot count and goal count.

Really, watch the highlights again if you must, and tell me what Rittich should stop. Because that was an offensive clinic by Tampa.

Don’t give me shot locations and save percentages, because shot quality and shot placement are more important. Not all shots from the same location are equal.

Goal 1 - one timer from slot, passed from behind net, placed above blocker, bar down. No goalie reasonably stops it
Goal 2 - pass to Paquette in slot, one timer inside trapper side post. Placed perfectly. No goalie reasonably stops it.
Goal 3 - Gio is pushing Gourde through the blue paint right in front of Rittich. At the split second Rittich moves his head to the right to try to see past them, the shot is on the way by. Didn’t stop what he couldn’t see.
Goal 4 - puck is fed into the crease by Kucherov, as Rittich slides across, a tiny gap opens up. Cirelli is in the crease unchallenged and his stick is there to tap it in, while Gio is stumbling behind him. Split second timing. Perfect tap in.
Goal 5 - Gourde tip, redirection inside the post. A goal on any goalie who is in position tracking the shot.
Goal 6 - Stamkos one timer, over the shoulder, top corner. No goalie can physically react in time to stop it. If Stamkos places it where he intends, it’s a goal every time.

Again, I liked his save on Stamkos PP one timer, tracked Erne well on his breakaway cut across the crease

Forget the denominator and watch the game. Forget the other 21 shots. It could have been 6 goals on 6 shots, if those were the shots, and I would say Rittich stopped everything he could.

So average? That’s just, like, your opinion, man.

And my opinion is that your opinion is wrong. Sorry to offend.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:07 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
Sorry that you are offended. Doesn’t help to come back with shot count and goal count.



Really, watch the highlights again if you must, and tell me what Rittich should stop. Because that was an offensive clinic by Tampa.



Don’t give me shot locations and save percentages, because shot quality and shot placement are more important. Not all shots from the same location are equal.



Goal 1 - one timer from slot, passed from behind net, placed above blocker, bar down. No goalie reasonably stops it

Goal 2 - pass to Paquette in slot, one timer inside trapper side post. Placed perfectly. No goalie reasonably stops it.

Goal 3 - Gio is pushing Gourde through the blue paint right in front of Rittich. At the split second Rittich moves his head to the right to try to see past them, the shot is on the way by. Didn’t stop what he couldn’t see.

Goal 4 - puck is fed into the crease by Kucherov, as Rittich slides across, a tiny gap opens up. Cirelli is in the crease unchallenged and his stick is there to tap it in, while Gio is stumbling behind him. Split second timing. Perfect tap in.

Goal 5 - Gourde tip, redirection inside the post. A goal on any goalie who is in position tracking the shot.

Goal 6 - Stamkos one timer, over the shoulder, top corner. No goalie can physically react in time to stop it. If Stamkos places it where he intends, it’s a goal every time.



Again, I liked his save on Stamkos PP one timer, tracked Erne well on his breakaway cut across the crease



Forget the denominator and watch the game. Forget the other 21 shots. It could have been 6 goals on 6 shots, if those were the shots, and I would say Rittich stopped everything he could.



So average? That’s just, like, your opinion, man.



And my opinion is that your opinion is wrong. Sorry to offend.

Tampa’s a deadly team and that was on full display last night. I don’t think many people are blaming Rittich for the goals - as you illustrate they were tough chances.

The flip side is that a hot goalie does make some of those saves, even if the puck just randomly hits the shaft of their stick or a desperation kick just catches a piece of the puck with a skate blade. We saw BSD make those saves earlier this season. We aren’t seeing them as often now, so yeah he’s average at best right now.

He made some great saves last night too, I’m not throwing him under the bus, but if you’re suggesting he played as well as any goalie could I disagree. Look at Markstrom the other night as an example.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:21 AM   #12
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Tampa’s a deadly team and that was on full display last night. I don’t think many people are blaming Rittich for the goals - as you illustrate they were tough chances.

The flip side is that a hot goalie does make some of those saves, even if the puck just randomly hits the shaft of their stick or a desperation kick just catches a piece of the puck with a skate blade. We saw BSD make those saves earlier this season. We aren’t seeing them as often now, so yeah he’s average at best right now.

He made some great saves last night too, I’m not throwing him under the bus, but if you’re suggesting he played as well as any goalie could I disagree. Look at Markstrom the other night as an example.

That’s why I paid so much attention to shot placement. Mainly one timers off of bars. Things a goalie can’t even get set for. The argument you appear to be making seems to be in favour of luck, not what is controllable.

We all see the shots where guys find the goalie’s glove, or the goalie intends to make a save and puts a piece of his body where he hopes the puck goes, and it hits him. A guy has a breakaway and puts it in to the goalie’s pad, not placing it where he wants to.

Rittich was in solid position on all but the 4th, and even reacted pretty well to where the shots went, but you can see that he is behind the play, because to react to a lot of those perfectly placed shots is pretty much beyond the limits of human capability.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:23 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
He gave up six goals on 27 shots and you think Rittich was decent?

The Flames had a fairly good first, and against a less dominant team they likely come out all right. Line change goal hurt them, and the third goal was pretty unlucky. So yeah average and it's my opinion ... pretty clear actually as my name is at the top of it ... so save me the spreadsheet BS it's a pretty disrespectful response.
I am a fan of analytics to help tell a story, but when it comes to goaltending if you are going to use numbers to suggest how a goaltender played without evaluating the quality of the chances than you are out to lunch. I agree with the moustache that one of the six goals was a possible chance to stop, the rest were goals that only get stopped if the player misses, nothing the goaltender can do about them.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:24 AM   #14
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He gave up six goals on 27 shots and you think Rittich was decent?

The Flames had a fairly good first, and against a less dominant team they likely come out all right. Line change goal hurt them, and the third goal was pretty unlucky. So yeah average and it's my opinion ... pretty clear actually as my name is at the top of it ... so save me the spreadsheet BS it's a pretty disrespectful response.
Yep. Mentioned three different times in three different posts.

Strange how some people can't express disagreement on a topic without without resorting to labels or some other comment on the poster.

No one is saying Rittich is the reason they lost but he did not have a good game. Speaking for myself, I'm not at all happy with the goaltending Flames have received lately.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:39 AM   #15
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Hey, an opinion was expressed, and I considered it to be wrong. The justification for that opinion is simple and flawed.

I didn’t say anything about a poster. I did say something about the opinion.

I will stand behind detailed, specific, critical analysis over basic counting stats as a better way to put this single game in context.

About “having a good game”, of course nobody would be happy with the outcome. Probably doesn’t enjoy letting in 6.

Probably thinks he should have had some. But he would be wrong there too. Humans don’t move that fast.

I’m not unhappy with the goaltending last night. I would think it is more reasonable to be unhappy with the shots TB got.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
Sorry that you are offended. Doesn’t help to come back with shot count and goal count.

Really, watch the highlights again if you must, and tell me what Rittich should stop. Because that was an offensive clinic by Tampa.

Don’t give me shot locations and save percentages, because shot quality and shot placement are more important. Not all shots from the same location are equal.

Goal 1 - one timer from slot, passed from behind net, placed above blocker, bar down. No goalie reasonably stops it
Goal 2 - pass to Paquette in slot, one timer inside trapper side post. Placed perfectly. No goalie reasonably stops it.
Goal 3 - Gio is pushing Gourde through the blue paint right in front of Rittich. At the split second Rittich moves his head to the right to try to see past them, the shot is on the way by. Didn’t stop what he couldn’t see.
Goal 4 - puck is fed into the crease by Kucherov, as Rittich slides across, a tiny gap opens up. Cirelli is in the crease unchallenged and his stick is there to tap it in, while Gio is stumbling behind him. Split second timing. Perfect tap in.
Goal 5 - Gourde tip, redirection inside the post. A goal on any goalie who is in position tracking the shot.
Goal 6 - Stamkos one timer, over the shoulder, top corner. No goalie can physically react in time to stop it. If Stamkos places it where he intends, it’s a goal every time.

Again, I liked his save on Stamkos PP one timer, tracked Erne well on his breakaway cut across the crease

Forget the denominator and watch the game. Forget the other 21 shots. It could have been 6 goals on 6 shots, if those were the shots, and I would say Rittich stopped everything he could.

So average? That’s just, like, your opinion, man.

And my opinion is that your opinion is wrong. Sorry to offend.
I never have a problem with people having an opinion that is different, or thinking my opinion is wrong. I expect it with everything I put out.

But lay off on the spreadsheet comments, that's a lame way of trying to diminish another's opinion when you don't have a clue how I arrived at my conclusions.

You defend Rittich every day though so I get it ... he can do no wrong.

Then you tell me what I can't say ... that's nice, especially for someone that isn't intending to offend.

Starting goalies stop 97.5% of the easy shots, 91% of the medium tier shots, and 81% of the high danger shots.

Rittich stopped 9 of the 11 high danger shots last night which is right on the average starter level, but he let up 25% of the non high danger chances according to the summary.

That's not a good night.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:49 AM   #17
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I am a fan of analytics to help tell a story, but when it comes to goaltending if you are going to use numbers to suggest how a goaltender played without evaluating the quality of the chances than you are out to lunch. I agree with the moustache that one of the six goals was a possible chance to stop, the rest were goals that only get stopped if the player misses, nothing the goaltender can do about them.
For sure ... and nowhere in my story did I blame Rittich for the loss. I mentioned the team broke down and didn't play well.

But I don't see him as without a role in the loss either ... he wasn't at his best.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:58 AM   #18
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I never have a problem with people having an opinion that is different, or thinking my opinion is wrong. I expect it with everything I put out.

But lay off on the spreadsheet comments, that's a lame way of trying to diminish another's opinion when you don't have a clue how I arrived at my conclusions.

You defend Rittich every day though so I get it ... he can do no wrong.

Then you tell me what I can't say ... that's nice, especially for someone that isn't intending to offend.

Starting goalies stop 97.5% of the easy shots, 91% of the medium tier shots, and 81% of the high danger shots.

Rittich stopped 9 of the 11 high danger shots last night which is right on the average starter level, but he let up 25% of the non high danger chances according to the summary.

That's not a good night.
I understand your position. It’s straight back to statistics to classify as not good. I disagree.

I have read, and respect, enough of your posts to know that you have a pretty good understanding of how stats work and where the assumptions and limitations are.

You must know that classification of a chance by level of danger does not actually correspond to the actual danger of that particular shot.

I’m sure Rittich had a bad feeling night and didn’t enjoy the result. But in terms of what a human can do, given what he was faced with, he was good.
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:03 AM   #19
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For sure ... and nowhere in my story did I blame Rittich for the loss. I mentioned the team broke down and didn't play well.

But I don't see him as without a role in the loss either ... he wasn't at his best.
I didn’t say you blamed him for the loss.

Right. He can’t control the shots, all he can control is how he responds to them.

Seriously, what could he actually have done better, and I mean something he can control here, that would see him being, in your words, ‘at his best’?

Been luckier?

Seriously, if you look at the goals, and be specific, tell me what could be done better. I honestly do not see what he could have done.

Except stopping more. How? Beats me.
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:06 AM   #20
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I understand your position. It’s straight back to statistics to classify as not good. I disagree.

I have read, and respect, enough of your posts to know that you have a pretty good understanding of how stats work and where the assumptions and limitations are.

You must know that classification of a chance by level of danger does not actually correspond to the actual danger of that particular shot.

I’m sure Rittich had a bad feeling night and didn’t enjoy the result. But in terms of what a human can do, given what he was faced with, he was good.
No my opinion was on what I watched.

It didn't take a spreadsheet to see 6 goals on 27 shots ... I can almost do numbers like that in my head.

I didn't blame the guy. You've been defending me saying he was average ... which in a game that he posted a .778 save percentage shouldn't come across as a personal attack on the guy.
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