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Old 02-20-2019, 06:41 PM   #941
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I won't be making the pub night. Any idea when the full schedule will be announced?
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:51 PM   #942
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Because the reality is that not one of the existing seven markets will move the needle on international interest.
I don't buy this argument at all. Better tell Juventus, Liverpool, Dortmund, Schalke, Leicester and Everton that they can't "move the needle" because the cities they play in aren't in the biggest markets in their respective country. They aren't Top 20 clubs worldwide because they play against teams in Berlin, Rome, and London either, they have big followings because they play exciting football and are well marketed.

The Toronto Argonauts aren't the reason Americans and others tune in to the CFL. Those that do so tune in because its different and interesting football. CFL went years without Montreal and Ottawa, and the league managed to survive.

Besides, CanPL has presence in Canada's largest market. Toronto has a team (York 9), its just in the borough of York within Greater Toronto, just like West Ham, Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea are all "London clubs", even though most of them are in boroughs of Greater London.

The issue isn't going to be that Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal aren't in the name, the issue will be if the league has lousy football that isn't easily accessible. The novelty is going to be a "Canadian Div 1" to viewers outside Canada, not how many teams there are from Montreal.

So, to put a different spin, CanPL has teams in five of Canada's largest 10 markets, just to start. Even MLS only had about that when it started in 1996 with a mix of teams in the suburbs of major cities and a bunch of smaller markets. Movement towards the cores of some of the largest markets came later.

Toronto is the only Canadian market that might "move the needle" on its name alone. Montreal, Vancouver and Ottawa mean very little outside of Canada for sports fans besides being marginally more recognizable.

That said, it might mean something locally, and I'm sure the Ottawa Fury (by force), a Surrey team and a Laval team are coming. Maybe even another GTA team.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:42 AM   #943
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Alex Bunbury has been very vocal about getting a club in the Montreal area for 2020.

https://twitter.com/AlexanderBunbu1/...59024662020096
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:27 AM   #944
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I really don't think that there is a valid comparison against teams with a century plus of history in the biggest leagues in the world, Thunderball. Particularly given the CPL isn't even the top flight league in the country, despite the division 1 handle.

The comparison isn't with Juventus and Liverpool. It is with the likes of Lecce and Derby County -- if they were expansion teams.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:08 AM   #945
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I don't buy this argument at all. Better tell Juventus, Liverpool, Dortmund, Schalke, Leicester and Everton that they can't "move the needle" because the cities they play in aren't in the biggest markets in their respective country. They aren't Top 20 clubs worldwide because they play against teams in Berlin, Rome, and London either, they have big followings because they play exciting football and are well marketed.
If Juve, Liverpool, or Dortmund were playing sub-USL quality soccer in a salary-capped league nobody would be deluded enough to say they're 'moving the needle' either. Also doesn't hurt that they make regular Champions League appearances, which does indeed get them high-profile games in cities like London or Rome where neutral interest in the result is extremely high.

Nobody in Europe is going to be interested in the 'novelty' of a Canadian league when they still regard even MLS as something of a joke. It's going to be about as appealing to them as watching League Two and at least forcing oneself to watch that does away with the inconvenience of wonky time zone differences. It's about as foolish as banking on the couple dozen people in the States still interested in Canadian football to be the saviour of the CFL's ratings.

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Alex Bunbury has been very vocal about getting a club in the Montreal area for 2020.
Montreal doesn't even have enough broad local demand for the sport to get people to attend Impact academy games when they were giving tickets away for free. What's another MLS-feeder team going to be able to do there?

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Old 02-21-2019, 09:39 AM   #946
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Originally Posted by Resolute 14
I really don't think that there is a valid comparison against teams with a century plus of history in the biggest leagues in the world, Thunderball. Particularly given the CPL isn't even the top flight league in the country, despite the division 1 handle.

The comparison isn't with Juventus and Liverpool. It is with the likes of Lecce and Derby County -- if they were expansion teams.
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If Juve, Liverpool, or Dortmund were playing sub-USL quality soccer in a salary-capped league nobody would be deluded enough to say they're 'moving the needle' either.
It was a response to the idea that none of the markets matter internationally and the notion that somehow having a Toronto City or Montreal City soccer club would alleviate that issue for CanPL. My point was the location of the team/size of the market is irrelevant in football if the team/league quality is there and fan support is there. Which it won't be right away, there's just simply no way. Long term, there's no reason why the most well known team in CanPL in Canada and abroad can't be Halifax or Pacific, despite being the smallest markets, if they have the most success (and the revenue that comes from exposure to CCL and even possibly someday, club world cup (though no Canadian or American team has made that yet)).

This is Canadian USL and "North America Division 2" until the revenue and popularity grow to where it can compete with the bottom of MLS, and that's coming from someone who is cautiously optimistic.

Right now I know comparing Liverpool to Cavalry is like comparing the Calgary Flames to the Guildford Flames (at best), but I just don't see how having a Montreal or Vancouver team helps internationally. Domestically, absolutely, but internationally, no.

The people who tune in that aren't from Canada are going to be watching to see what sort of league us ice bound hockey and curling playing Canadians can drum up as a curiosity. They won't care which cities are playing.

Last edited by Thunderball; 02-21-2019 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:54 AM   #947
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Montreal doesn't even have enough broad local demand for the sport to get people to attend Impact academy games when they were giving tickets away for free. What's another MLS-feeder team going to be able to do there?
I agree. Even if you consider a Laval/Montreal CanPL franchise to be a level or two up on Impact Academy (and they likely would be), even the Impact themselves are struggling to attract fans, and are hemorrhaging money. From what I've read, they are one of the weakest MLS franchises that are propped up by Joey Saputo's cheque book. I would not be surprised to see them relocate if he ever has enough.

Quebec is an extremely fickle sports market generally, and I don't expect a Montreal/Laval team to do well. Maybe a Quebec City team might have better luck, but if I'm running CanPL, my expansion priority is Ontario and BC. Maybe one team in Saskatchewan.

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Old 02-21-2019, 09:57 AM   #948
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It was a response to the idea that none of the markets matter internationally and the notion that somehow having a Toronto City or Montreal City soccer club would alleviate that issue for CanPL. My point was the location of the team/size of the market is irrelevant in football if the team/league quality is there and fan support is there. Which it won't be right away, there's just simply no way. Long term, there's no reason why the most well known team in CanPL in Canada and abroad can't be Halifax or Pacific, despite being the smallest markets, if they have the most success (and the revenue that comes from exposure to CCL and even possibly someday, club world cup (though no Canadian or American team has made that yet)).

This is Canadian USL and "North America Division 2" until the revenue and popularity grow to where it can compete with the bottom of MLS, and that's coming from someone who is cautiously optimistic.

Right now I know comparing Liverpool to Cavalry is like comparing the Calgary Flames to the Guildford Flames (at best), but I just don't see how having a Montreal or Vancouver team helps internationally. Domestically, absolutely, but internationally, no.

The people who tune in that aren't from Canada are going to be watching to see what sort of league us ice bound hockey and curling playing Canadians can drum up as a curiosity. They won't care which cities are playing.
It has absolutely nothing to do with whether they matter internationally - it's a moot point because the league itself fundamentally won't matter internationally. Counting on some kind of bizarre European cult following to gravitate towards the CPL for no reason beyond 'novelty' is completely deluded. It's as nonsensical as trying to argue that any portion of Canada's population beyond a rounding error is a serious follower of the Czech or the Belorussian hockey league. Just stop.

The issue is purely one of domestic viewership. Half the country's population in a 'national' league has little to no motivation to tune in because they already have a well established and objectively superior local produc. That's a massive obstacle that little short of time travel or the MLS gradually forcing Canadian franchises out is ever going to truly solve.

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Old 02-21-2019, 10:08 AM   #949
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It has absolutely nothing to do with whether they matter internationally - it's a moot point because the league itself fundamentally won't matter internationally. Counting on some kind of bizarre European cult following to gravitate towards the CPL for no reason beyond 'novelty' is completely deluded. It's as nonsensical as trying to argue that any portion of Canada's population beyond a rounding error is a serious follower of the Czech hockey league. Just stop.

The issue is purely one of domestic viewership. Half the country's population in a 'national' league has little to no motivation to tune in because they already have a well established and objectively superior local product, which is a massive obstacle.
Resolute 14 seemed to think Mediapro is counting on international numbers. I don't think they are. I think they are counting on growing enough Canadian (and maybe American) numbers to justify their outlay.

All I was trying to say is that the location of the clubs isn't much of a factor in that and that CanPL will be a non-factor internationally indefinitely. I never said that this will be more than a minor blip internationally, I'm not sure why you think I am. The people who tune in that I mentioned in my last paragraph can probably be measured in triple digits, globally. IF it ever grows in 20-50 years, the location of the clubs will be irrelevant internationally, just like the location of Dortmund, Liverpool and Juventus is. That's it.

The notion that having all Canadian markets would make a difference to CanPL internationally is silly because the league is so raw and small relative to MLS and Liga MX, let alone the big Euro leagues. I think we agree there.

There's going to be the same issue with regard to MLS being established in Canada regardless even though teams in the largest 3 markets are important. Are people in Vancouver going to watch the Whitecaps or Vancouver FC out of Surrey. Is a market of 3.5m big enough to support two soccer teams anyway? Or are they better off building a base from the biggest centres left (and GTA) and then trying to steal market share.

GTA is the only one I'm confident is big enough to support multiple clubs, and York9 is the test subject. Again, York is technically part of Toronto.

Last edited by Thunderball; 02-21-2019 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:05 AM   #950
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"Counting on" is overstating my position, but that might be because of poor wording on my part. My view is that Mediapro doesn't invest $200 million over a decade in a start-up league comprised of mid-size cities in a country that doesn't really love the sport without expectations that the largest cities become involved. And part of that reasoning is that they would want to be able to earn some revenue form international markets in some form. Calgary and Halifax don't help that. Toronto and Montreal do.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:22 AM   #951
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"Counting on" is overstating my position, but that might be because of poor wording on my part. My view is that Mediapro doesn't invest $200 million over a decade in a start-up league comprised of mid-size cities in a country that doesn't really love the sport without expectations that the largest cities become involved. And part of that reasoning is that they would want to be able to earn some revenue form international markets in some form. Calgary and Halifax don't help that. Toronto and Montreal do.
Fair point.

I doubt foreign viewers really care about the difference between Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Halifax, Ottawa and Vancouver. They're all regional cities, just like the average Canadian might not recognize Torino, Gelsenkirchen, Nice, Bordeaux and Leicester. Montreal might have a bit of pull in the francophone countries, but even then, the key is GTA and only GTA. Which is why its not fair to discount that York9 is a Toronto club seeking to access a share of the entire GTA market. Forge arguably is too. I suspect the next club will also be a Toronto suburb with the same goal of seeking to access a share of the entire GTA market.

Should one of these teams adopt the Toronto name for optics? I would. York9 is trying the "community" angle, but I don't think that'll work for all of them (and I'm sure there will be at least one more).

I think Mediapro is counting on a 16 team league with some presence in the top 10 Canadian markets and multiple GTA offerings, but I suspect their international angle is to provide non-CanPL offerings with their CanPL and CSB offerings and gain better access to the Canadian marketplace that way. If CanPL grows a bit and they gain a greater foothold in Canada, a $200m investment might be a prudent one.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:39 AM   #952
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I'm cautiously optimistic about the deal with MediaPro. I can see some sub-licensing happening to DAZN and hopefully TSN as well. I've got no problem paying a reasonable amount for a subscription, but I do hope that there is an agreement to have some matches on traditional channels as well. As mentioned by someone above, I can't see the Canadian national teams being available exclusively on an "over the top" service, in the years leading up to the World Cup. Sub-licensing must be a consideration here.

The bottom line is that we have a long-term deal for the production and distribution of matches. And they are actually investing some money in the league. Hopefully that translates into enough exposure on traditional channels, along with in-depth coverage for those that are willing and able to pay for a (hopefully reasonably-priced) subscription.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:51 AM   #953
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I won't be making the pub night. Any idea when the full schedule will be announced?
Next week.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/cana...rop-next-week/
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:44 PM   #954
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Decided to go for it and grab some season tickets. Grabbed two in the home supporters section.

Should be fun! Look forward to cheering along with you all this season.
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:39 AM   #955
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Home opener is May 4 against York 9. 1:30 PM MST. Full schedule will be out Wednesday.

https://twitter.com/CPLCavalryFC/sta...92095929331712
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:43 AM   #956
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Home opener is May 4 against York 9. 1:30 PM MST. Full schedule will be out Wednesday.

https://twitter.com/CPLCavalryFC/sta...92095929331712
I'm pretty excited about this!
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:51 AM   #957
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I remember some crazy blizzards around the May long weekend in the past.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:58 PM   #958
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Most of May is a crap shoot for weather around here. Chances are it'll be fine, and if not, it should add to the mystique and folklore of the club. "I survived opening day 2019." I think that, in addition to travel, the weather will be one of those key defining elements of this league. Who doesn't love an orange ball and mini gloves?

It is a neat feeling to put that first game into my calendar though. Makes it seem a little more real to have a date and time.

Interesting that May 4th is set up as a triple header with no overlap. Potential for a nationally televised triple header? Dare to dream. But it would be a good way to get the country to sit up and take notice.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:04 PM   #959
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Also, how did the pub night go? Thursday is my Beavers night volunteering for my kid so I was unable. Good turnout? Any tasty bits of info?
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Old 02-22-2019, 03:41 PM   #960
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Pub night went well. Most of the night was simply players and staff mingling with those who showed up. The only real juicy bit of info was that the home opener would be on May 4, but that was announced today. They are up to 1500 season tickets, and most of the South end is full with season ticket holders. Ian mentioned they have stopped calling members, and will be opening up season ticket sales to the general public. No mention of game packs or single game tickets, I would imagine the schedule needs to come out first, but that will be soon.

I managed to chat with Ledgerwood, Carducci, Adekugbe, Waterman, Northover, Patino, Camargo and Giantsopoulos, and they are just as excited for this league as us in the supporters group are.

It is interesting to contrast the sheer excitement that everyone has at these events with the criticisms of the league and the club on the Internet. Not just here, but basically everywhere the league is discussed. Maybe people need to stop analyzing every minute detail about this thing and just try and have some fun in the stands.
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