Actor Jussie Smollett Attack/Hoax?

[troutman]

Loved the Chicago accent of one of the investigators at the press conference.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Again, there is a lot there that I agree with you on. I guess the point I was trying to make was this: For a long time, in my opinion, victims did have an exceedingly high burden of proof for 'beleivability'. In the last year or two, that has started to shift because of things like the metoo movement. However, as soon as the pendulum started swinging, it started facing resistance. And while some of it is deserved, a lot of it feels like people trying to push things back to the way they have always been.

I will admit that my first post was a touch on the hyperbolic side, though perhaps not as much as you seem to think, as your very posts indicate.

I think that you are conflating "being taken seriously" and "being believed". I can take someone's claim of whatever they want to claim seriously while it is investigated, but I am not required to and should not just outright believe them. IMO, a good investigator doesn't 'believe' either suspect or victim, as belief in something tends to lead to biased conclusions in favor of that belief.

"Innocent until proven guilty" means that our system is going to have a high burden of proof against the victim, but most folks seem to feel that's a good thing. All of us are in accord in that when reporting something, the person reporting it should be taken seriously. But they should not just be outright believed until the evidence has been examined and tells its story.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Believe it or not, it is possible to respond to me without being smarmy and insulting my intelligence. I AM reading your statements, and the reason I am responding is that when I read what you are saying, its seems in-congruent. It's really no different than when someone posts in FOI about a questionable head hit. Everyone is watching the same video, but conclusions usually vary from totally clean, to should have kept his head up, to throw the aggressor out of the league. People can interpret the very same words and images in different ways.

I'm not insulting your intelligence, merely trying to cater to it. I clarified -- quite verbosely -- my position for you, and you're still doubling down.

Originally Posted by dobbles

For a long time, in my opinion, victims did have an exceedingly high burden of proof for 'beleivability'. In the last year or two, that has started to shift because of things like the metoo movement. However, as soon as the pendulum started swinging, it started facing resistance. And while some of it is deserved, a lot of it feels like people trying to push things back to the way they have always been.

I am all for taking people seriously, but a high burden of proof in any criminal complaint is unfortunately necessary to ensure that we are vigorous in our investigations and justice is indeed served. #MeToo has highlighted the issue that it is typically quite hard to prove allegations as there is often little evidence available, and I empathize with that. We have to learn how to do better in that area, not throw away the presumption of innocence. WhiteTiger captured this well in his post above.

Originally Posted by dobbles

Regardless though, you win. I have given my 2 cents and it doesn't look like you have any interest in discussion; just talking down to me.

This is rich coming from someone who strawmanned me in two consecutive posts and -- after being called out for it -- responded like this:

Originally Posted by dobbles

Because I slightly disagreed? I did so in a respectful manner and have added my reasoning and respected your rebuttals. Is it really necessary to play the victim like that?

You're right, I'm not interested in a discussion with someone who wants to color my words with their biases when all I ask is that they a) stick to the words on the page, and b) approach the discussion in good faith instead of projecting. Apparently, that is too much to ask. We're not politicians trying to win an election here; we're trying to have an honest discussion, there's no need to spin anyone's words.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

"Innocent until proven guilty" means that our system is going to have a high burden of proof against the victim, but most folks seem to feel that's a good thing.

I sometimes worry that we're forgetting why the burden of proof is high. The historical abuses of authoritarian states against their citizens are receding from memory. We've let our understandable frustration with people getting away with bad behaviour blind us to how bad things get when accusations alone are enough to ruin someone. People being people, in that climate accusations become weaponized to destroy political rivals, dissidents, or just a neighbour who you hate.

[DiracSpike]

Sounds like this POS was perfectly willing to testify against two innocent men to complete his falsified claim. What an evil evil guy. Lots of people in the media still carrying water for him too which is just insane.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Sounds like this POS was perfectly willing to testify against two innocent men to complete his falsified claim. What an evil evil guy. Lots of people in the media still carrying water for him too which is just insane.

This clown is screwed, and deserves it. Anyone who lies to the authorities should be subject to the full weight of the law. What kind of cretinous scum do such things?

Makes you wonder, what kind of person would dream up a scheme to blame innocent people for something they had no part in, then participate in their prosecution, just for personal gain? Who would ever defend them? Makes you wonder.

[CaptainCrunch]

Removed from the last two episodes of Empire


https://globalnews.ca/news/4987953/j...medium=Twitter


So that's probably no to a raise

[zamler]

Looks like he's going with the OJ defense, police are racist and corrupt out to get him from the beginning. How long until Smollett claims he was framed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by zamler

Looks like he's going with the OJ defense, police are racist and corrupt out to get him from the beginning. How long until Smollett claims he was framed.

Its a narrative that's already starting to come out based on the history of the Police. They're trying to frame him because all cops are instruments of right wing hate.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by zamler

Looks like he's going with the OJ defense, police are racist and corrupt out to get him from the beginning. How long until Smollett claims he was framed.

He'll be claiming he was on Ambien before long.

[Nyah]

Yeah, I read some of the bond proffer and I can't see how he's going to mount a defense? His phone records and texting history alone are pretty damning. How is he, and more importantly his legal team, still maintaining innocence right now? If anyone wants to read it, it's here:

https://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/docu...roffer-doc.pdf

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Yeah, I read some of the bond proffer and I can't see how he's going to mount a defense? His phone records and texting history alone are pretty damning. How is he, and more importantly his legal team, still maintaining innocence right now? If anyone wants to read it, it's here:

https://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/docu...roffer-doc.pdf

I think they are trying to win the public battle using race and hate and what not. I assume they think they can win enough people over doing this to save his career.

Which I find weird. Just own up to it now, and you probably get a lesser sentance without jai ltime, then keep your head down for a couple years and probably turn out ok.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well the goal here was increased fame and enrichment, if you're already deep in it you might as well go all the way. His career is over either way.

[dubc80]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Yeah, I read some of the bond proffer and I can't see how he's going to mount a defense? His phone records and texting history alone are pretty damning. How is he, and more importantly his legal team, still maintaining innocence right now? If anyone wants to read it, it's here:

https://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/docu...roffer-doc.pdf

Thanks for posting that link. Really interesting read.

Its crazy how detailed it is. Shows how easy it is to track people's exact movements via surveillance videos, cell phone records, etc.

[Playfair]

My thoughts exactly. Sad for the real crimes where these kinds of attacks aren’t staged. The cops handled this very well. For all the grief police get these days, they did it right and thorough.

[corporatejay]

Guy Germaine must be so disappointed.

[GreenLantern2814]

This is why it's important to not get too worked up about the crazy stuff you see in the news for a good week to ten days. You can always get angry again.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well the goal here was increased fame and enrichment, if you're already deep in it you might as well go all the way. His career is over either way.

For the next couple of years maybe. If public responses to media scandals over the past few years tells me anything, is that people get over it.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Actual footage of Jussie Smollett and his friends rehearsing the attack has leaked. It's really not looking good for him I'm afraid.


https://mobile.twitter.com/robbystar...62117763035140

[Thor]

So is Empire any good?