[Rumour] Kadri used his NTC to nix a trade to the Flames involving TJ Brodie

[timbit]

[QUOTE=GranteedEV;7156993]Point totals only mean so much. Dany Heatley used to be a "top line guy", but how much of that was being a perfect fit on a line with Spezza and Alfredsson? Even at center, you have Steven Stamkos, who benefitted greatly from playing with Martin St. Louis, and put up an absolutely legendary 60 goal season - but since MSL's departure he's become more of a secondary guy, in the Lightning's most successful seasons seeing the best wingers on his team playing with Johnson (2015 playoffs) or with Point ( 2019 season) who are more dynamic centers.

Monahan isn't a two way beast like Toews, Kopitar, ROR, Bergeron, etc so adhering to him as a defacto 1C "just because he produces" doesn't do it for me. If a guy like Kadri could have similar levels of success on that same line, then Monahan should be able to suck it up and succeed on his own line, even if it's less prolific on the statsheets for him. I'm interested in the team's success. And comparing the two players' past production makes no sense, one guy was playing top line with Gaudreau and the other has been buried behind Matthews, or if we go back further played on the least talented team in the NHL in 2016. I've always seen Monahan as being more of a Jeff Carter / Steven Stamkos type - these guys are valuable pieces but they're also highly flawed. You can win with them if you are able to have perspective on what they are and what they are not, but you can't keep plugging them into a round hole ad infinitum and expecting different results.[/QUOTE]

Yet, despite NOT playing with the “best wingers “ ,in each of the last 2 seasons , Stamkos has been second to Kucherov in team scoring .

Stamkos led the team in goal scoring with 45 last season.

Not sure that deems him as having “round hole” syndrome.

Enlighten us with your perspective on his flaws.

[topfiverecords]

I have the solution but it requires Chuck Fletcher to play along.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

You sure do get upset about people having different opinions than you do. Based on what I’ve seen, and from the team’s performance in the playoffs to date, and in my experience watching the Flames for a long time, that’s my opinion. Monahan has never in my years of watching him taken over a game without the help of Gaudreau, and he certainly hasn’t carried a team on his back the way players like Mackinnon, Crosby, O’Reilly, Iginla, etc have shown the ability to do.

And again, in my opinion, that’s one of the reasons why this team may not be built to go far in the playoffs. Feel free to disagree but my mind isn’t going to be swayed by getting dragged into an argument about it on the internet. It’s going to be swayed by seeing it happen.

Watch these highlights and tell me that Johnny was the architect of these big nights for Monahan.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...h-29-1.5077923

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5pezv6iAwI

And look at these plays and tell me there's no skill or play driving in him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htLX_oOChYY

[Flash Walken]

Lol, Dany heatley scored 41 goals in his second season in the league before ever being paired with spezza because he played on the thrashers.

He scored 67 points in his first year in the NHL on the worst team in the league.

LoL, what is with this guy?

[Flash Walken]

Can anyone tell me if a guy who finished 6th in the league in goals might have been a top line player?

[Ashes]

Why is it such an outrageous take to say that the Flames MAY continue to have trouble advancing further in the playoffs going forward with our current C depth.
The points that Monahan puts up with Gaudreau are obviously in the highest tier for centre's as has been pointed out again and again, and his goal totals and GWG's can't be argued during the regular season. For me the argument isn't whether or not Monahan is a true #1, it's whether our C depth as a whole is good enough to get it done in the playoffs.

Monahan is a regular season beast in terms of points, specifically goals. But unless he gains more speed or miraculously learns to use his body as a way of shielding the puck and playing more physical when we find ourselves in the playoffs, I also don't see how we go on a deep run without adding another top 6 Centre that plays a heavier game ideally.

I know some people get a blood pressure spike when they feel that someone is attacking Monahan but wouldn't it be ideal for the Flames future playoff chances if we had a 1A/1B centre tandem where the other guy can bring more competitiveness?
C depth of Monahan, Backlund, Jankowski and Ryan worked great for the regular season but other than winning draws they were mostly neutralized by Colorado's C depth in the playoffs.

I personally don't want Lindholm to move from RW to C because he's been the best RW for the top line since Hudler IMO and maybe some flashes from Ferland, which leads me to believe that we aren't going to see a Brodie trade until Tre gets a Center back in return that can hopefully anchor the 2nd line.

With all that being said, Monahan's comments about having to come back next season as a "completely different player" leads me to believe that coaches and management have had a talk with him about becoming more effective. So I fully expect him to work his ass off in his off-season training, hopefully it translates into a quicker and (maybe) more physical player, but that part is rare to see if it's not part of a guy's DNA.

We all want to see this team succeed, I'm just skeptical we can get it done in the playoffs without bolstering this top 6, specifically the C position. A new Centre between Monahan and Backlund on the depth chart would give me much more confidence going into next season.

Im just hoping Tre has his eye on another obscure player that people don't know is available, just like the Lindholm deal. Too bad Kadri didn't work out, but with his history I'm feeling better about the Flames missing out on him by the day.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Not at all. I should rephrase that as "Monahan's staunch defenders should get thicker skin than to refuse to acknowledge the idea that he could be separated from Gaudreau"

I have no problem with this. In fact, I have advocated for it on the principle that I think the biggest flaw in Monahan's game is that he defers to Gaudreau too much. Sometimes I think it would be good for him to play an extended period of time away from Gaudreau as a means to facilitate skills that Monahan already possesses but does not use enough. But then again, the two players are SO good together that it is also difficult to imagine that either one of them would be even nearly as successful if separated.

What I do have a problem with is the continued insinuation from some posters that Monahan is exclusively a beneficiary of Gaudreau, or the notion that he is a poor puck distributor who is incapable of driving his own line, or the occasionally repeated idea that he is not as good as his year-to-year production indicates. That's all.

[FanIn80]

Everything else aside, I'm fairly certain that The Monahan is my all-time favourite celly.

[Love]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Call me crazy, but on the Flames specifically, Kadri would probably find himself centering Gaudreau and Lindholm at some point and it could be extremely successful. He's a more dynamic player than Monahan.

He's better on both sides of the puck.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Everything else aside, I'm fairly certain that The Monahan is my all-time favourite celly.

Hands down.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Love

He's better on both sides of the puck.

Like the top and bottom of the puck?

[curves2000]

I am a big Monahan fan, the guy is a consistent clutch player and puts up goals and assists with the best of them. His production is very very valuable to the Flames and a lot of that has to do with the connection with Johnny, they go hand in hand.

A friend of mine put it into NFL terms the other day and it makes sense if you think about it objectively.

Monahan is like a Phillip Rivers of the LA Chargers, put's up the numbers, does a lot of things really really well and is a key piece of the team. What you really really really need if you want to go deep, win a championship or two and be consistently deep in the post season is a Tom Brady.

Monahan is young, effective and puts up in the numbers. We will need to see how things transpire this season and than need to have a hard look at things from an entire team perspective.

[Demaeon]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Hands down.

Knee up.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Rando

Like the top and bottom of the puck?

Clearly. What else could it possibly mean?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Hands down.

There's an up in arms comment to respond to you about Mony's celly, but I don't know what it is.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

There's an up in arms comment to respond to you about Mony's celly, but I don't know what it is.

Well you don’t have to be all up in arms about it.

[powderjunkie]

nhl.com, so positions may not always be perfectly accurate, but among centres here is how SM ranks over the past ___ number of seasons (cumulative)

2 seasons: 18th PTS, 13th EVP, 16th PPG, 10th G, 10th GPG
3 seasons: 14th PTS, 15th EVP, 19th PPG, 10th G, 13th GPG
4 seasons: 16th PTS, 11th EVP, 21st PPG, 9th G, 14th GPG
5 seasons: 13th PTS, 12th EVP, 18th PPg, 7th G, 8th GPG

Unquestionably a 1st line centre. Perhaps he is not, and never will be an "elite #1" or "cup calibre #1C", but the list of pre-apex Centres that you would unquestionably want ahead of him is pretty short (Mackinnon, McDavid, Barkov, Matthews, Scheifele, Point, Aho...) - maybe I'm missing a few, but I think you're thinking pretty darn hard before swapping him with anyone else.

[Love]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Unquestionably a 1st line centre. Perhaps he is not, and never will be an "elite #1" or "cup calibre #1C"

Both can be true, but the second (and more important) statement is really all that matters.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Love

Both can be true, but the second (and more important) statement is really all that matters.

Much worse(and older) players have made that kind of shift as soon as they hit the playoffs one year. Not saying it will, there's only so much you can do about predicting that playoff outburst(Shwartz) and I know everyone is trying to get the bad taste out of there mouths from 4 bad games. But unless the cap goes up $11 mill next summer there's not much point panicking about it. I mean, we ONLY have Monahan? You know, the guy that's a billion times better than Kadri ever was or will be? Oh yeah, that was a good laugh too by the way, holy s*** man.

[N-E-B]

Maybe I’m crazy but I think Monahan is better than every single centre on the St. Louis Blues (yes, including O’Reilly) and they just won the Stanley Cup. The Flames need to upgrade at #2C, Monahan is a solid 1C. No, he’s not Crosby but very few teams have a player of his caliber and none of them won the cup this year.