[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames have interest in Toffoli (and other RHS top 6 forwards)

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think people have really selective memories when Czarnik plays, maybe because when he's good he shows up on the score sheet, but when he's bad
he's invisible.

That's what a 4th liner is.

You're not gonna get a player that consistenly night in, night out makes a impact. It's why they are cheap, and typically young and developing. So when you have a overpaid veteran on your 4th line, it's not a good thing.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Joborule

That's what a 4th liner is.

You're not gonna get a player that consistenly night in, night out makes a impact. It's why they are cheap, and typically young and developing. So when you have a overpaid veteran on your 4th line, it's not a good thing.

The 4th line shouldn't just be "leftovers". Give them a purpose. Are they gooing to play PK? Grind line? Energy line?
No team can ice 4 scoring lines and I don't see Czarnik doing anything else

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Joborule

That's what a 4th liner is.

You're not gonna get a player that consistenly night in, night out makes a impact. It's why they are cheap, and typically young and developing. So when you have a overpaid veteran on your 4th line, it's not a good thing.

Who is overpaid on that line - Jankowski? Czarnik isn't taking Jankowski's spot - he can't kill penalties, is unproven in the dot. And his NHL salary is only slightly less than Jankowski anyway. He makes $1.25M. Reider and Rindaldo make $700K.

BTW, Rinaldo has played 12 games with 2 goals and 3 points. Czarnik has exactly the same production. He's only played 8 games but that likely is maybe a one point difference if you pro-rated it. And Rinaldo supplies a few other attributes as well.

ETA: If we are making arguments for callups based on AHL production you can probably make pretty good arguments for Quine, who produces about the same in the AHL, and has a smaller cap hit when called up. Or Gawdin, who produces well, but is younger, and maybe you'd like to see what he can do. Those guys have a bit more heft as well.

[blankall]

People need to settle down a little.

No single player is being gifted that permanent final spot on the bottom line if another top 6 forward is brought in. The plan is clearly to put Rinaldo, Reider, and Czarnik into the lineup whenever the team needs a shakeup. Czarnik does bring some energy.

However, all of these players have now been decidedly passed by Mangiapane and Dube. The rest are vets fighting for playing time. They all have their strengths, but are from from ideal. Then again, it's the fourth line, so playing time is minimal.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by AC

Like who though?

The players available via trade are going to be 1 dimensional, or else cost you a piece of the core.

Toffoli is basically a slightly younger James Neal in a nutshell. A good part of us all should be skeptical of this type of player with limited foot speed and crazy production swings over the last few seasons.

If players that are rumored to be available like Palmieri, Kase and Kapanen, the Flames should be making them all the primary targets as they are much more versatile players and provide term beyond this season for a team that needs to take advantage of the next 2-3 seasons in a big way.

[TheIronMaiden]

Do we all agree that the 1st is off limits?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who is overpaid on that line - Jankowski? Czarnik isn't taking Jankowski's spot - he can't kill penalties, is unproven in the dot. And his NHL salary is only slightly less than Jankowski anyway. He makes $1.25M. Reider and Rindaldo make $700K.

BTW, Rinaldo has played 12 games with 2 goals and 3 points. Czarnik has exactly the same production. He's only played 8 games but that likely is maybe a one point difference if you pro-rated it. And Rinaldo supplies a few other attributes as well.

ETA: If we are making arguments for callups based on AHL production you can probably make pretty good arguments for Quine, who produces about the same in the AHL, and has a smaller cap hit when called up. Or Gawdin, who produces well, but is younger, and maybe you'd like to see what he can do. Those guys have a bit more heft as well.

Yea, Jankowski, Reider, Rinaldo and Czarnik are not really ideal players to dress a full 82 games.

Its why many feel we need to add 2 forwards to the group.

I wouldn't mind getting a look at Gawdin at some point this season. I like Quine but he is what he is and if he comes back up he will need to clear waivers to go back down.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Basically the only significant player you listed was Kessel and that wasnt a deadline deal nor a rental. This is basically what I'm saying the Flames should do. Dont waste good value assets on middle six rentals. Save the assets for an impact player. O'Reilly and Kessel are good examples.

Hagelin would be the next best addition but he was a mid season hockey trade and he had three years left on his deal. Not a rental.

Kaberle was a significant acquisition at the time, it cost Boston a 1st and a top prospect. He never did what was hoped, but he was absolutely a significant addition.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Toffoli is basically a slightly younger James Neal in a nutshell. A good part of us all should be skeptical of this type of player with limited foot speed and crazy production swings over the last few seasons.

Although, I would agree that Toffoli may not move the needle as much as maybe a Kase or a Kapanen, I believe he may be the least expensive to obtain and still get some bang for the buck. A rumoured 2nd and B level prospect isn't bad for a 20 goal scorer with potential for more skating alongside Monahan and Gaudreau or Lindholm and Tkachuk.

Also "slightly younger" than James Neal may be a stretch. Neal is 4.5 years older and was in his 30s when he came to Calgary. Toffoli is still 27.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Yea, Jankowski, Reider, Rinaldo and Czarnik are not really ideal players to dress a full 82 games.

Its why many feel we need to add 2 forwards to the group.

I wouldn't mind getting a look at Gawdin at some point this season. I like Quine but he is what he is and if he comes back up he will need to clear waivers to go back down.

I don't really think any 4th liner probably is a guy you play 82 games. I like Rinaldo on limited games, same with Czarnik. Those are guys you need to keep hungry.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Although, I would agree that Toffoli may not move the needle as much as maybe a Kase or a Kapanen, I believe he may be the least expensive to obtain and still get some bang for the buck. A rumoured 2nd and B level prospect isn't bad for a 20 goal scorer with potential for more skating alongside Monahan and Gaudreau or Lindholm and Tkachuk.

Also "slightly younger" than James Neal may be a stretch. Neal is 4.5 years older and was in his 30s when he came to Calgary. Toffoli is still 27.

For a 2nd and a prospect like Ruzicka it would be palatable.

I like the idea especially if we could add another RWer as well and push Backlund and Mangiapane down to a new look 3rd line.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Do we all agree that the 1st is off limits?

For Toffoli, yeah, I wouldn't want to throw in a 1st. Not in a year where the draft is supposed to be very strong and the parity would see the Flames drafting almost anywhere depending how the season plays out.

I would trade it in a hockey trade though if it meant getting a good young player that can be locked in (like a Lindholm or Hanifin).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Although, I would agree that Toffoli may not move the needle as much as maybe a Kase or a Kapanen, I believe he may be the least expensive to obtain and still get some bang for the buck. A rumoured 2nd and B level prospect isn't bad for a 20 goal scorer with potential for more skating alongside Monahan and Gaudreau or Lindholm and Tkachuk.

Also "slightly younger" than James Neal may be a stretch. Neal is 4.5 years older and was in his 30s when he came to Calgary. Toffoli is still 27.

Neal's issues went beyond getting older and slower too. In any event, I think Toffoli is a relatively cheap acquisition who can contribute with good players. I'd like to see that plus a push for Kapanen using Hamonic (I'd take Ceci back if they need to clear cap - he can fill in as a 7th D or get waived, I don't care.)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Do we all agree that the 1st is off limits?

IMO trading the first away is more defensible than making no moves and keeping Brodie and Hamonic with no intention of re-signing them.

That's the worst outcome to me. Rolling through the remainder of the season with the same roster we see now.

Add or subtract, you need to do something to either improve this year's team or future years.

[SportsJunky]

What about Winnipeg? Does that not make the most sense for a Hamonic trade? Their D is in a real tail spin right now. The thing is, I don't know what they would send back to Calgary in a deal?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't really think any 4th liner probably is a guy you play 82 games. I like Rinaldo on limited games, same with Czarnik. Those are guys you need to keep hungry.

I don't necessarily disagree but if we could add a couple RWers our 4th line would be players you can play for 82 games if healthy:

Tkachuk-Lindholm-
Gaudreau-Monahan-
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

That way you have Rinaldo/Reider et. al. as injury replacements that can push guys like Dube, Bennett and Mangiapane and can fill in for them if they need a game or two to view from up top.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Do we all agree that the 1st is off limits?

For a rental yes.

It’s certainly not off limits when trying to acquire another young core forward.

[GioforPM]

Hamonic for Kapanen, lesser/conditional pick/prospect for Toffoli

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Kapanen
Gaudreau-Monahan-Toffoli
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Kylington-Stone

[SportsJunky]

The thing is then Treliving needs to make a deal for a #6 Dman. Probably cost a mid round pick? Calgary can’t afford to go into the post season with Stone as a regular imo.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hamonic for Kapanen, lesser/conditional pick/prospect for Toffoli

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Kapanen
Gaudreau-Monahan-Toffoli
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Kylington-Stone

I would be very happy with that forward group