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Old 01-20-2020, 08:12 AM   #301
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My best guess is Brad has Toffoli as his fall back option and will absolutely get him if his other plans don't work out. He's likely looking for a younger, cost controlled top 6 player for the future and his willing to pay the price to get him, and I bet the player will surprise a lot of fans (as in someone no one was talking about).

Then if that doesn't work he'll grab Toffoli, as a pending UFA.
I think we are going to see multiple trades by the flames this year. Toffoli will be just one piece of the puzzle.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:53 AM   #302
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Yeah, Saad is very intriguing to me. Would be an excellent fit in my mind.

He’s hurt at the moment but should be good to go after the break.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:54 AM   #303
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Yeah, Saad is very intriguing to me. Would be an excellent fit in my mind.

He’s hurt at the moment but should be good to go after the break.
Actually he's been back the past 2 games with a goal in each
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:11 AM   #304
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Vancouver fans should probably be more upset than Edm fans on this one.
100%.

Thankfully, I have no Canuck fan friends.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:47 AM   #305
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People said the same thing about Ryan O'Reilly after he was moved by Buffalo to St. Louis. What was St. Louis thinking? Turns out that with the right mix of talent and style of play that certain players will just click. I think Toffoli is a guy that would really compliment Monahan and Gaudreau and turn that line around. Also, the cascade effect of pushing other players back into the roles they are best suited to makes the rest of the team stronger.
St Louis didn't bring in O'Reilly to spark Tarasenko and Schenn though. The Flames issues are far deeper than bringing in a middle six rental. This idea that Backlund moves to the third line and all of a sudden starts producing I dont buy either. At this point I'd move Backlund for a pick and cap space. Not only did O'Reilly have term but he also had three 60+ pts seasons and two 50+ pts seasons. Toffoli has zero 60 pts seasons and one 50 pts season. And St Louis is a massive anomaly. Again very concerning if people think Toffoli is the answer and even more concerning if you think its going to replicate the Blues success.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:52 AM   #306
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Yeah, Saad is very intriguing to me. Would be an excellent fit in my mind.

He’s hurt at the moment but should be good to go after the break.
LHS though and doesn't really tie into what LeBrun was suggesting.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:57 AM   #307
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St Louis didn't bring in O'Reilly to spark Tarasenko and Schenn though. The Flames issues are far deeper than bringing in a middle six rental. This idea that Backlund moves to the third line and all of a sudden starts producing I dont buy either. At this point I'd move Backlund for a pick and cap space. Not only did O'Reilly have term but he also had three 60+ pts seasons and two 50+ pts seasons. Toffoli has zero 60 pts seasons and one 50 pts season. And St Louis is a massive anomaly. Again very concerning if people think Toffoli is the answer and even more concerning if you think its going to replicate the Blues success.
I don't believe THE answer is available out there. Team needs some upgrades and some changes. Toffoli could be part of that maybe.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:00 AM   #308
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Saad doesn't fit the RHS portion but he fits the mold of what Tre has been after the past few years in terms of a winger. James Neal, Jason Zucker, etc.

He can play RW and has term left. Just seems like he'd be on the radar.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:49 AM   #309
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LHS though and doesn't really tie into what LeBrun was suggesting.
That's a good point. I think Treliving is focused on getting a rhs first and foremost. Back to Toffoli!
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:34 PM   #310
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Saad doesn't fit the RHS portion but he fits the mold of what Tre has been after the past few years in terms of a winger. James Neal, Jason Zucker, etc.

He can play RW and has term left. Just seems like he'd be on the radar.
Could get both. This is where trading both Hamonic and Brodie, as well Bennett would more than likely be necessary.

The scoring RHS is very important though because it allows for more firepower on the PP. We know how weak the PP can look both in gaining the zone, as well as maintaining possession. Having two lines that have RHS for the forwards can be very beneficial. Should lead to more possession and one timers.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:36 PM   #311
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Islanders are very competitive despite whiffing on 5OA Dal Colle, 4OA Reinhart (of course salvaging Barzal out of it is huge), 5OA Ryan Strome underperforming (Eberle), 5OA Niederreiter underperforming (Clutterbuck), and letting their 1OA go for nothing.

The Kings won 2 cups after picking Thomas Hickey 4OA despite getting 0 NHL gp before losing him on waivers.

Erik Johnson wasn't a 1OA calibre player - St Louis turned him into Shattenkirk and Stewart (which eventually turned into part of the price for Brayden Schenn)

Tampa didn't hit a homerun with 3OA Drouin (Sergachev contributing) or 6OA Connolly (turned into 0 NHL gp so far)

Chicago picked Barker 3OA and Jack Skille 7OA in the 2 years before Toews and Kane.

These terms weren't crippled by these failures. Missing on a Top 5 pick isn't a death sentence. Sure, LA got Doughty 2OA and Schenn 5OA, but they won the cup through shrewd deals and doing well with lower picks. Same story with Tampa - Stamkos and Hedman alone do not make them the juggernaut they are. The Blues have had 1 other Top 12 pick since 1990 - picking Pietrangelo 4OA is not the only thing that made them a winner. Since Dipietro in 2000, the Islanders have had six picks between #4-9, and only 'hit' on Bailey (9OA) and Okposo (7OA).

Only Pittsburgh seems to have a close to perfect track record, though you could probably say that MAF, Staal, and Ryan Whitney 5OA slightly underperformed their draft spots.


Similar situations as Calgary:
  • Vancouver is still competitive despite 0 games from 2016 5OA Juolevi (early days)
  • Coyotes salvaged 3OA Strome into Schmaltz
  • Columbus has done okay despite 2OA Ryan Murray underperforming
  • Florida missed on 3OA Gudbrandson


I'm not a big trade Bennett guy, but from looking through this list it does seem that the salvage trade pans out more often than not.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:36 PM   #312
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A good scenario is the Flames trade for 3 forwards. Toffoli, Kapanen and Lias Andersson. Send a couple of plugs to the popcorn room and bump down Magiapane and Backlund to where they IMO should be.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:37 PM   #313
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:51 PM   #314
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What is funny is we were all so happy when Sam fell to us at #4. He was touted as a 1st overall pick on some draft cards. We got an awesome player who was going to lead us from the hinterland. Too bad he couldn’t even produce to the same level as Fail Yakupov. Just a massive disappointment from a player with so much hype. He was supposed to be the next Doug Gilmour. Turns out he plays hockey like David Gilmour of Pink Floyd.
You mean Happy Gilmore...I think that would've put smiles on our faces at least
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:56 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by powderjunkie View Post
Islanders are very competitive despite whiffing on 5OA Dal Colle, 4OA Reinhart (of course salvaging Barzal out of it is huge), 5OA Ryan Strome underperforming (Eberle), 5OA Niederreiter underperforming (Clutterbuck), and letting their 1OA go for nothing.

The Kings won 2 cups after picking Thomas Hickey 4OA despite getting 0 NHL gp before losing him on waivers.

Erik Johnson wasn't a 1OA calibre player - St Louis turned him into Shattenkirk and Stewart (which eventually turned into part of the price for Brayden Schenn)

Tampa didn't hit a homerun with 3OA Drouin (Sergachev contributing) or 6OA Connolly (turned into 0 NHL gp so far)

Chicago picked Barker 3OA and Jack Skille 7OA in the 2 years before Toews and Kane.

These terms weren't crippled by these failures. Missing on a Top 5 pick isn't a death sentence. Sure, LA got Doughty 2OA and Schenn 5OA, but they won the cup through shrewd deals and doing well with lower picks. Same story with Tampa - Stamkos and Hedman alone do not make them the juggernaut they are. The Blues have had 1 other Top 12 pick since 1990 - picking Pietrangelo 4OA is not the only thing that made them a winner. Since Dipietro in 2000, the Islanders have had six picks between #4-9, and only 'hit' on Bailey (9OA) and Okposo (7OA).

Only Pittsburgh seems to have a close to perfect track record, though you could probably say that MAF, Staal, and Ryan Whitney 5OA slightly underperformed their draft spots.


Similar situations as Calgary:
  • Vancouver is still competitive despite 0 games from 2016 5OA Juolevi (early days)
  • Coyotes salvaged 3OA Strome into Schmaltz
  • Columbus has done okay despite 2OA Ryan Murray underperforming
  • Florida missed on 3OA Gudbrandson


I'm not a big trade Bennett guy, but from looking through this list it does seem that the salvage trade pans out more often than not.
The key with the salvage trade is the timing, AKA, not letting a player's value bottom out.

Barker scored ~40 points in ~60 games the season before he was traded. The Hawks didn't wait two or three seasons after that to trade him, they dealt him the very next season after he started to show he wasn't that player.

Sam Bennett has a monster playoffs after a 3rd lacklustre regular season in a row? Better hold onto him! Oops, 15 point player.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:59 PM   #316
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You mean Happy Gilmore...I think that would've put smiles on our faces at least
"Is that goal regulation size or what? Jeez!"
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:02 PM   #317
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Still think his interest is Saad. Under contract, around 27/28 years old. Not a lot different than Zucker, his last target around this time.

Also Chicago will be looking to shed cap and might be interested in moving that contract.
If the GM wants to give this roster a shot in the arm going down the stretch I think Saad or Kapanen are the best targets to help 13+23 get their #### in order and to be a part of the team going forward. That would be tier one. Tier two if they cant grab either would be Toffoli and Kreider.

And I sincerely hope they deal one of the UFA dmen. You've got to cover your own rear from an asset management standpoint because at least one is surely going to walk and end up elsewhere. Keeping both guys a couple more months just to give the defense depth/options and gamble on this season's team isn't worth that loss for nothing in return.

The kids are capable and can fill in the gaps I think way better than most will expect. Also part of me feels that the death of that second pairing will end up being addition by subtraction.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:04 PM   #318
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I am still hearing a few rumblings about Kase being available. He would be top of the list if he was.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:06 PM   #319
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If the GM wants to give this roster a shot in the arm going down the stretch I think Saad or Kapanen are the best targets to help 13+23 get their #### in order and to be a part of the team going forward. That would be tier one. Tier two if they cant grab either would be Toffoli and Kreider.

And I sincerely hope they deal one of the UFA dmen. You've got to cover your own rear from an asset management standpoint because at least one is surely going to walk and end up elsewhere. Keeping both guys a couple more months just to give the defense depth/options and gamble on this season's team isn't worth that loss for nothing in return.

The kids are capable and can fill in the gaps I think way better than most will expect. Also part of me feels that the death of that second pairing will end up being addition by subtraction.
If Saad/Kreider was RHed I would agree with this comment fully!
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:16 PM   #320
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If Saad/Kreider was RHed I would agree with this comment fully!
Yeah, Saadly they are not.
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