U of C professor killed in bear attack near Waiparous

[Mass_nerder]

David gave a presentation to my cohort last year during a professional practice block week course. I remember he was an incredibly engaging speaker.
That's tough to hear.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Good thing you know know me so well, or my proficiency with said tools.
I train with a firearm more often than some SWAT teams do.

I've hit 2" targets with a 1oz slug on a regular basis at 75-100 yards with no issues. I'm not concerned with my ability to hit a target under pressure, since that's what I train for almost every day.

Not sure where you got your 6 foot effective range from. Even with target/bird shot you're still looking at 35-45 yards effective range (on birds or clays), and I'd never carry that in the wilderness with me for the purpose of bear protection.

Slugs are the only way to go, or 00 buck if you want a bit more spread for "in your face" scenarios.

Honestly, not sure what the comment about pulling out a shotgun in front of my kids has anything to do with this. They have a healthy respect for firearms and know what they are, and what they're not.

On the bluff charge, I'd rather be pointing a firearm in case it turned out to not be a bluff (since you can't always know either way), than get run over and get mauled.

Any time I've had a bear encounter in my adult years I've almost always seen them coming for miles, and always wait for them to pass, or give them a wide berth and go a different route. Please don't lecture me on this topic. I probably spend more time in the wilderness than 90% of people out there. And because I do, I know I'm in a higher risk category than the average person, so I take the necessary precautions to keep myself and those with me safe.

Every person's safety is their own responsibility. If you're comfortable carrying nothing, then go ahead. If you want to only carry bear spray, go for it.
I choose to go over and above that when allowed to do so.

Again, strongly encourage you to take some courses or something similar on bear awareness in the backcountry. Firearms are not necessary.

https://www.bearscare.ca/?courses

These guys do a great job.

[Envitro]

OK cool, thanks guy...

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Envitro

OK cool, thanks guy...

Look, the fact you think popping a slug into a stationary target is the same as getting a line on a bear that wants a piece of you shows me you aren't ready.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by peter12

Look, the fact you think popping a slug into a stationary target is the same as getting a line on a bear that wants a piece of you shows me you aren't ready.

The targets are moving in Duck Hunt. Duh.

[8 Ball]

Sad news indeed. What a horrific way to die.

[Joborule]

I didn't really know the guy, but recognized him primarily around the UofC gym, and had two casual conversations with him. Seemed like a tremendous dude. Big loss for the community.

[Zarley]

I took a corporate sustainability course with Dr. Lertzman during my undergrad, I remember him as an excellent lecturer - an engaging person who really made the content come alive. Very saddened to hear this news.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Envitro

12ga is the only answer in the backcountry... Bear spray is OK, but not nearly as effective in protecting life. Flame away

The science doesn’t back that up but you are free to have your opinion.

Especially for the average trail user. Your advice is reckless.

[1qqaaz]

He was pretty jacked for being 59 years old ehh?

Condolences to his friends and family. Seems like he was a great guy.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Good thing you know know me so well, or my proficiency with said tools.
I train with a firearm more often than some SWAT teams do.

I've hit 2" targets with a 1oz slug on a regular basis at 75-100 yards with no issues. I'm not concerned with my ability to hit a target under pressure, since that's what I train for almost every day.

Not sure where you got your 6 foot effective range from. Even with target/bird shot you're still looking at 35-45 yards effective range (on birds or clays), and I'd never carry that in the wilderness with me for the purpose of bear protection.

Slugs are the only way to go, or 00 buck if you want a bit more spread for "in your face" scenarios.

Honestly, not sure what the comment about pulling out a shotgun in front of my kids has anything to do with this. They have a healthy respect for firearms and know what they are, and what they're not.

On the bluff charge, I'd rather be pointing a firearm in case it turned out to not be a bluff (since you can't always know either way), than get run over and get mauled.

Any time I've had a bear encounter in my adult years I've almost always seen them coming for miles, and always wait for them to pass, or give them a wide berth and go a different route. Please don't lecture me on this topic. I probably spend more time in the wilderness than 90% of people out there. And because I do, I know I'm in a higher risk category than the average person, so I take the necessary precautions to keep myself and those with me safe.

Every person's safety is their own responsibility. If you're comfortable carrying nothing, then go ahead. If you want to only carry bear spray, go for it.
I choose to go over and above that when allowed to do so.

Not knowing anything about his encounter with the bear, and his obvious knowledge of hiking trails in the area, it seems he startled a bear and had no chance to react. Bear spray or shotgun he was overwhelmed quickly. But who knows?

[powderjunkie]

Had him as a professor. Incredible guy, probably the most influential on me in all 4 years. Very sad.

I got the sense he lived a somewhat rustic lifestyle out in that vicinity (NW of Calgary). I'm sure he knew how to handle himself in the woods better than most. Obviously details are limited, but I can see how one might be on a lower level of 'bear-alert' in the foothills.

I love trail running in the city, but I've already been nervous about it in the mountains.

[FlamesAddiction]

I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on a firearm and being able to wield it in time. I worked in some remote areas before where we would hire a guide from one of the Nations to carry a firearm and watch our backs, but if it is just one person, bear spray and bangers were the main tools. Although having a fire arm wouldn't hurt in situations where you have time to use it properly and safely. Of course, those are in cases where you fully expect to run into a bear.

Very sad to hear this news.

[InternationalVillager]

Lertz was very proficient and skilled in the outdoors. Took a wilderness retreat course with him. Sad.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by peter12

Again, strongly encourage you to take some courses or something similar on bear awareness in the backcountry. Firearms are not necessary.

https://www.bearscare.ca/?courses

These guys do a great job.

You are insufferable.
If the guy wants to carry and firearm and trains to do so and is doing it legally all the power to him. Yes, the science largely points that bear spray is more effective for a larger portion of encounters, but to encourage him to take courses like this is purely disrespectful. He clearly knows what he is doing and chooses to go above and beyond. Just because you seem to have a opinion on the use of firearms does not make your opinion solely correct. Big bad firearms everyone run for your lives.

This is tragic news. One of my greatest fears as a avid bowhunter.
There is a ton of bears and cats in the woods these days make sure you carry protection and know how to use it quickly and effectively. Spray out of reach is useless.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

You are insufferable.
If the guy wants to carry and firearm and trains to do so and is doing it legally all the power to him. Yes, the science largely points that bear spray is more effective for a larger portion of encounters, but to encourage him to take courses like this is purely disrespectful. He clearly knows what he is doing and chooses to go above and beyond. Just because you seem to have a opinion on the use of firearms does not make your opinion solely correct. Big bad firearms everyone run for your lives.

This is tragic news. One of my greatest fears as a avid bowhunter.
There is a ton of bears and cats in the woods these days make sure you carry protection and know how to use it quickly and effectively. Spray out of reach is useless.

or maybe he just doesn't want the first solution to someone in a bears habitat to be "shoot the damn thing", even if the guy does more training than a SWAT team, as he states.

I don't think Peter's position on this is unreasonable.

[GrrlGoalie33]

I've never met the man, but incidents like this are always sad, my condolonces to his family, and I can only hope that his death wasn't too long and painful.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

You are insufferable.
If the guy wants to carry and firearm and trains to do so and is doing it legally all the power to him. Yes, the science largely points that bear spray is more effective for a larger portion of encounters, but to encourage him to take courses like this is purely disrespectful. He clearly knows what he is doing and chooses to go above and beyond. Just because you seem to have a opinion on the use of firearms does not make your opinion solely correct. Big bad firearms everyone run for your lives.

This is tragic news. One of my greatest fears as a avid bowhunter.
There is a ton of bears and cats in the woods these days make sure you carry protection and know how to use it quickly and effectively. Spray out of reach is useless.

Do you train more than Hawkeye?

[btimbit]

Interesting how these conversations go and turn into something completely different.

I know a lot about guns, but admittedly not a lot about bears. Seems to me the best defence from a firearm would be something easy to use, that packs enough punch to put down the animal in one trigger pull. Something you're just conveniently carrying with you on the trails doesn't do either of those things, even if you do manage to get the shot exactly where you need it. I'd think you're more likely to put the animal into a shock-induced rage rather than put it down or scare it off.

Don't think firearms are the answer there.


On topic, damn shame about all this. Seemed like a hell of a guy who would normally know exactly what to do in these situations, sounds like he just caught the bear off guard and didn't have time to react

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

or maybe he just doesn't want the first solution to someone in a bears habitat to be "shoot the damn thing", even if the guy does more training than a SWAT team, as he states.

I don't think Peter's position on this is unreasonable.

This is where the misconception happens. The first solution is never ever shoot the damn thing. Thats the last solution, the solution you take to save a life of your child. In many bear encounters, things happen very very fast. If he spends as much time in the woods as stated, im sure he takes steps to avoid bear encounters. I don't believe it was ever stated once he intends to needlessly kill the animal.