Kyle Rittenhouse Trial - Update: Acquitted On All Charges

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Dealing with insurance for a few months vs shooting and killing someone... tough call.

Ah yes insurance . That Magic company that pays for things for free and acts in the best interest of society while loosing money

How do people think insurance “pays” for things

I guess we should just let everyone trash property and the magic insurance fairy will pay for it

Right up there with “write it off”. The magic $$ fairy will take care of it

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

How old are you and what did you do for “thrills” when you were younger? Because Rosenbaum was 36, a convicted criminal and actively lighting fires, destroying property and threatening people with violence. And he wasn’t shot for any of that. He was shot for pursing, attempting to corner and trying to grab someone’s rifle, someone he had earlier threatened with death if he caught him alone.

I believe the gentleman your referring to had mental issues and while I’m by no means condoning what he allegedly said to KR I also believe that the time of night and the types of crowds these types of protests garner in America opened anyone up to that type of language if they found themselves being in the type of situation. Which brings us back to KR who not only transplanted his young, adolescent 17-year old still growing mind and self directly into a situation that automatically would place anyone into potentially encountering the types of situations that allegedly lead to KR’s interactions, but he transplants himself with a heavy duty gun loaded with heavy duty ammo. A gun that he seemingly wasn’t allowed to purchase and own on his own merit due to the law but I guess it seems by the same letter of the law was allowed to wield and kill 2 individuals and severely injured a third while endangering countless others. Did him bringing an open-carry and extremely intimidating AR15 style weapon and maybe even potentially wielding it in a way that intimidated other protesters contribute to the those finding death to be their fate that night via way of those same heavy duty bullets from that same heavy duty gun??? Who’s to say I guess right??

The saddest part in this to me is KR’s mom who has demonstrated no responsibility to any of this. Who admitted she was asleep while he was down there… just brutal.

[Ducay]

There are failures all over the place to point to:

- Police & Feds for not maintaining order & safety
- American gun culture
- Media for stoking the division & hyping up the jusitified shooting that started the protests
- People on both sides creating that situation that evening (ie rioters burning everything for no reason, vigilantes for playing police)
- etc etc

But a failure of the justice system this was not. Agree or not with the situation that arose, sure that is a fair debate, but with these 'crimes' the correct verdict reached.

The fact the media is now using this to sow more anger and division is just as treasonous and destructives to the states as the rioters burning the businesses.

Good take on the media's role in all the division being pushed:
https://www.persuasion.community/p/t...rdict-shouldnt

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Ah yes insurance . That Magic company that pays for things for free and acts in the best interest of society while loosing money

How do people think insurance “pays” for things

I guess we should just let everyone trash property and the magic insurance fairy will pay for it

Right up there with “write it off”. The magic $$ fairy will take care of it

So true. Everytime there’s a riot, protest or destruction of any kind really, even natural disasters, my first thought is always: but how will those insurance companies that make billions find a way to stay profitable for their shareholders?

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So true. Everytime there’s a riot, protest or destruction of any kind really, even natural disasters, my first thought is always: but how will those insurance companies that make billions find a way to stay profitable for their shareholders?

Tell that to the 100s of businesses with no insurance, insufficient coverage, or claims that were denied.

Even those with coverage face massive deductibles, rate increases, and oh ya - have lost their entire business and livelihood. A cheque for depreciated damages doesn't rebuild what they've spent years/decades building.

Go look up any of the many articles and news stories on the many people & businesses ruined due to the protests in Kenosha (forget every other city), heartbreaking.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I believe the gentleman your referring to had mental issues and while I’m by no means condoning what he allegedly said to KR I also believe that the time of night and the types of crowds these types of protests garner in America opened anyone up to that type of language if they found themselves being in the type of situation. Which brings us back to KR who not only transplanted his young, adolescent 17-year old still growing mind and self directly into a situation that automatically would place anyone into potentially encountering the types of situations that allegedly lead to KR’s interactions, but he transplants himself with a heavy duty gun loaded with heavy duty ammo. A gun that he seemingly wasn’t allowed to purchase and own on his own merit due to the law but I guess it seems by the same letter of the law was allowed to wield and kill 2 individuals and severely injured a third while endangering countless others. Did him bringing an open-carry and extremely intimidating AR15 style weapon and maybe even potentially wielding it in a way that intimidated other protesters contribute to the those finding death to be their fate that night via way of those same heavy duty bullets from that same heavy duty gun??? Who’s to say I guess right??

The saddest part in this to me is KR’s mom who has demonstrated no responsibility to any of this. Who admitted she was asleep while he was down there… just brutal.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by pointing out his mental issues. Doesn't that just support the position that he was likely unpredictable, dangerous, and likely a threat to Rittenhouse or anyone else who opposed him? And we have the benefit of 20/20. we know he was a convicted criminal, we know he had mental issues, we know he committed violence against others in the past.
While I don't disagree with you regarding the stupidity of bringing a gun to a riot, the fact is, it wasn't illegal for him to have it, just own it, which he didn't.
What do you think Rosenbaum was going to do once he caught Rittenhouse had he not been shot? what do you think his intentions were for chasing Rittenhouse even though prior to that point Rittenhouse, by all accounts was not aggressive, was offering medical help, putting out fires and protecting property? do you really want a guy who you concede had mental issues in possession of that gun? do you think his intentions given his earlier actions and comments that night were anything but evil?
There was enough stupidity that night from both sides, let's not try to pin this on one side. Had Rosenbaum not attacked and tried to take Rittenhouse's gun, he'd be alive. If Huber had not chased and attacked Rittenhouse by bashing him over the head, he'd be alive. Had Grosskreutz not chased Rittenhouse, pull out his concealed weapon, lunge and point his gun at Rittenhouse's head, he wouldn't have been shot.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm just a crazy guy who doesn't think people should get shot on the street no matter their age I guess. If the other dude had taken his gun and shot him then I'd think the other guy was guilty as well.

Hey, I was just trying to make sense of this remark:
"I did things for 'thrills' when I was young as I'm sure a lot of people did. Guess we all got off lucky no one shot us.
I'm not sure how you can chalk up any of what happened to the victims a result of young guys just out for thrills.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by pointing out his mental issues. Doesn't that just support the position that he was likely unpredictable, dangerous, and likely a threat to Rittenhouse or anyone else who opposed him? And we have the benefit of 20/20. we know he was a convicted criminal, we know he had mental issues, we know he committed violence against others in the past.
While I don't disagree with you regarding the stupidity of bringing a gun to a riot, the fact is, it wasn't illegal for him to have it, just own it, which he didn't.
What do you think Rosenbaum was going to do once he caught Rittenhouse had he not been shot? what do you think his intentions were for chasing Rittenhouse even though prior to that point Rittenhouse, by all accounts was not aggressive, was offering medical help, putting out fires and protecting property? do you really want a guy who you concede had mental issues in possession of that gun? do you think his intentions given his earlier actions and comments that night were anything but evil?
There was enough stupidity that night from both sides, let's not try to pin this on one side. Had Rosenbaum not attacked and tried to take Rittenhouse's gun, he'd be alive. If Huber had not chased and attacked Rittenhouse by bashing him over the head, he'd be alive. Had Grosskreutz not chased Rittenhouse, pull out his concealed weapon, lunge and point his gun at Rittenhouse's head, he wouldn't have been shot.

What I’m saying is I really don’t know what else Rittenhouse expected to happen put himself into a hostile situation with a weapon he was inexperienced with at an age where maybe he’s in over his head. There are countless examples of KR making the wrong decisions and it’s evident throughout the documentation of him being there that night. With regards to the mental issues I was stating for the individual in question what I’m meaning is if your bringing a gun into an actively tense situation there is a greater chance that if you encounter hostility there could be a graver outcome whether it’s in the premise of ‘self-defence’ or not. At the end of the day people died who wouldn’t have if KR hadn’t been there and hadn’t brought a gun and he shouldn’t have done both. I realize that’s not what he was being tried for but for him to show no real remorse for the deceased, regardless of their backgrounds, is concerning to me.

[corporatejay]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...nosha.amp.html

They have insurance, though they say it is not enough, and now they are tangling to get the money. But personal items they stored in the shops were not insured, they said. Mr. Farhan does not know how he will pay to replace his children’s winter clothes that were in a storage room.

“I have no job, and I’m using credit cards,” said Mr. Farhan, who is of Palestinian descent. “I’m going into debt, and I just got out of debt.”

"It's just property" is champagne leftism at its finest.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

So ####ing stupid, I'm not sure why I am even bothering to reply to this nonsense.

"While Bertain declined medical aid following the Dec. 22, 2018 incident, he later told family members he felt like his ribs had been broken and was found unresponsive three days later after he called 911 for help."

As opposed to the two people that were shot and killed within seconds during the Rittenhouse event. Those people didn't have a chance to walk away and have the option of receiving medical aid, they were dead as soon as they were shot. Immediately. Couldn't decline aid. They were already dead. That's the difference between a semi automatic rifle and a ####ing skateboard. Walk away and die three days later because of your own stupidity of refusing medical aid versus being dead on the spot.

...

Originally Posted by LannyMcDonald

You would have to convince a jury of your peers that you honestly believed this was a life-or-death scenario, and an individual with a skateboard as a weapon is NOT a a life and death scenario. I really don't care who is wielding that deck, it's not a lethal weapon.

"On May 5, 2021, a Humboldt County jury found Jason Ryan Barnes, age 48, of Eureka, guilty of one count of involuntary manslaughter for the homicide of Bernhard “Ben” Bertain and two felony counts of assault with a deadly weapon.

The jury also found true the special allegations that Mr. Barnes personally caused great bodily injury or death and personally used a deadly weapon. Barnes had been charged with second degree murder."

Come on counsellor. I would hope you are smarter than that.

[81MC]

Lanny saying a skateboard can’t be a lethal weapon? Man, reaching to validate an opinion is pretty normal, but that’s straight up wrong.

Lanny, I skateboard. I have no doubt in my mind that I could kill someone with it if I wanted to. If you use it as a weapon, it’s literally a 3’ club with with chunks of metal in the end, which when swung at someone’s head is pretty fuxking dangerous.

[81MC]

Oh...and apparently this happened like, earlier today.
https://thepostmillennial.com/man-di...rnia-starbucks
Guy dies after being struck with skateboard. By someone who apparently wasn’t an aggressor and trying to kill anyone.

So yeah, you can use a lever and a weight as a deadly weapon when you choose to do so. There is no debate there.

[EverfresH15]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Lanny saying a skateboard can’t be a lethal weapon? Man, reaching to validate an opinion is pretty normal, but that’s straight up wrong.

Lanny, I skateboard. I have no doubt in my mind that I could kill someone with it if I wanted to. If you use it as a weapon, it’s literally a 3’ club with with chunks of metal in the end, which when swung at someone’s head is pretty trucking dangerous.

That’s better

[BoLevi]

The salt in here is fascinating, if not completely expected.

KR was the victim of attempted murder and/or attempted "grievous bodily harm". Yet people here are victim blaming, and saying "he had it coming".

And after an entire trial which clearly laid out what happened, people are STILL getting the facts wrong.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So true. Everytime there’s a riot, protest or destruction of any kind really, even natural disasters, my first thought is always: but how will those insurance companies that make billions find a way to stay profitable for their shareholders?

When insurance companies make big payouts, they recoup the losses by increasing rates for everybody else. In Calgary, local bars and restaurants already struggling to stay afloat due to covid are being hit with huge insurance hikes because liability payouts have gone up.

Even with police and National Guard presence and armed locals protecting their property, 40 buildings in Kenosha were destroyed and $50 million in damage to private property incurred. If the city was abandoned to arsonists and looters, insurers would have been on the hook for even more. And they would have made up those losses by raising rates on people in Kenosha and elsewhere.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Come on counsellor. I would hope you are smarter than that. There is reasonable force for events. That is drilled into the heads of people who are permitted to conceal carry. I forgive you for not not knowing this, being Canadian and all, but there are rules for carrying, and quite a few extend to the level of force you get to apply in given situations.

Against an individual who makes verbal threats against you, you have no right to use lethal force. NONE. Against an individual who uses non-lethal force against you (a skateboard), you have no right to use lethal force. You would have to convince a jury of your peers that you honestly believed this was a life-or-death scenario, and an individual with a skateboard as a weapon is NOT a a life and death scenario. I really don't care who is wielding that deck, it's not a lethal weapon. Drawing your weapon in either of these situations can be construed as attempted murder, depending on the jurisdiction. Again, someone trained in handling weapons and concealed carry would know this. Rittenhouse was a high school kid who was required adult supervision to possess the weapon in question, so the responsibility is limited.



Dead? Unlikely. You're going to have to show the last individual killed with the use of a skateboard as a lethal weapon.




He was not legally allowed to carry the gun, which is why Dominick Black - the person who furnished the weapon - is facing felony charges and 25 years in prison. The adult who provided the weapon to Rittenhouse is accountable for that action and frees Rittenhouse from weapons charges. Yeah, the law is ####ed up, and meant to protect minors, but in this case it is protecting a murderer.

I get that you don't understand this as you don't know anything about guns or gun ownership. There is a great responsibility with carrying a weapon, and this court case greatly weakened the responsibility involved with carrying. Now you can make the claim of self defense in any situation, which prior to this ####show was not the case. You had to know your #### to carry a gun. Now? Any ####### will be able to carry and kill at will, claiming self defense.

What have we learned out of this mess? Restrict ownership of skateboards, but forgive people for inappropriate use of deadly force using an automatic rifle as a means of self defense.

You basically have everything wrong.

He was legally allowed to carry the gun. Everyone is in agreement on this, even the prosecutor as far as I can tell.

The standard for using lethal force in self defence is not that lethal force is used against you. The standard is that you might receive "grievous bodily harm".

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

The salt in here is fascinating, if not completely expected.

KR was the victim of attempted murder and/or attempted "grievous bodily harm". Yet people here are victim blaming, and saying "he had it coming".

And after an entire trial which clearly laid out what happened, people are STILL getting the facts wrong.

Let’s not conflate the blaming of Rittenhouse and his situation with what most people think of victim blaming as.

He is an idiot and he should have armed himself with pepper spray instead of a gun. Nobody would be dead. It is stupid that people think that the only way he could have protected himself was to shoot 3 people.

It’s nuts that murder is basically legal and people are fine with it.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

The salt in here is fascinating, if not completely expected.

KR was the victim of attempted murder and/or attempted "grievous bodily harm". Yet people here are victim blaming, and saying "he had it coming".

And after an entire trial which clearly laid out what happened, people are STILL getting the facts wrong.

He intentionally put himself in a situation where he was at risk of increasing tensions in a situation already filled with strife. He made the situation worse with his mere presence. He made the decision to go to another area with a firearm and that decision lead to another's death. He put himself in that position and while he was likely afraid for his wellbeing, it is akin to me jumping into a gorilla enclosure, then killing the gorillas, as I had no other choice, it was them or me.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

He intentionally put himself in a situation where he was at risk of increasing tensions in a situation already filled with strife. He made the situation worse with his mere presence. He made the decision to go to another area with a firearm and that decision lead to another's death. He put himself in that position and while he was likely afraid for his wellbeing, it is akin to me jumping into a gorilla enclosure, then killing the gorillas, as I had no other choice, it was them or me.

"she was dressed too sexy and was asking for it"

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

He intentionally put himself in a situation where he was at risk of increasing tensions in a situation already filled with strife. He made the situation worse with his mere presence. He made the decision to go to another area with a firearm and that decision lead to another's death. He put himself in that position and while he was likely afraid for his wellbeing, it is akin to me jumping into a gorilla enclosure, then killing the gorillas, as I had no other choice, it was them or me.

You do not give up your right to not be assaulted or killed by being a public space. You do not give up your right to not be assaulted or killed by carrying a legal weapon. You do not give up your right to not be assaulted or killed by wearing certain clothes.