2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So from what I'm reading today in this thread is, it doesn't matter that the Flames remain in the mushy middle so long as they dont remain in the mushy middle the same way they've done it for decades?

Man that sure feels like some lipstick on the same bloated dead pig to me.

Mushy middle is the mushy middle no matter how they get there.

The entire point of not being in the mushy middle is to draft a top 5 talent and build around that, can't achieve the ideal retool or rebuild without that part of the plan.

Lots of runway left in the season to see where this roster metes out, but it's looking super mushy. And that's not a good thing, even if theyre going at it from the other end of the build perspective.

100% this. These are critical years for drafting elite talent to form the next core, and we're talking about wanting to keep both weegar and Andersson because they're too important to winning right now. That would give us 5, 30+ long term contracts on a terrible team that's supposed to be rebuilding.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Andersson is worth somewhat more than those guys. But I also think the trades being thrown around here are unrealistic. The same thing happened last season with the impending UFAs - none were moved for close to the kinds of returns people on this site were tossing around.

It's been a wild year for CP trade proposals vs reality. "I hope it's Markstrom for New Jerseys 10th overall, but we may have to give our late first to them in the deal" "I hope Conroy doesn't give up our first in the deal just to get get 10th Overall. Maybe Pelletier instead?"

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by madmike

I think they’ll drop into the top 10. They’re already headed in that direction. But I agree top 5 would be tough. Before this season I’d hoped for back-to-back top 5s, but that seems unrealistic now.

I could see this happening, but if we finish between 5-10 in the draft and end up with a player like Caleb Desnoyers- well, that would be a nice consolation prize.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by jayswin

100% this. These are critical years for drafting elite talent to form the next core, and we're talking about wanting to keep both weegar and Andersson because they're too important to winning right now. That would give us 5, 30+ long term contracts on a terrible team that's supposed to be rebuilding.

Agreed.

The reason why Calgary is not a bottom feeder is twofold.

Above average goaltending. We can't do anything about that, and it's positive.

A number of viable older players like Andersson, Weegar, Kadri, Backlund and yes, even Huberdeau. They aren't going to be part of the next Calgary team that is considered a contender, because if we are even lucky that's at least 5 years away. And it preventing us from drafting at a position where we might get lucky and hit on some elite talent we so desperately need. And we can do something about that by trading Andersson for future assets (or perhaps young current assets) and seeing what we can do with Kadri's contract.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

IMO, the most interesting names in an Andersson trade at the deadline could be Buium (Minn), Nemec (NJ) and Ritchie (Col). If the flames retain salary with Andersson having two years left on his contract and take back some salary too, his implied value is immense to any of those three teams.

I hope prospects of that calibre are available, but I'm not optimistic that we could nab Nemec or Ritchie (Buium I could see). If we were able to pry Ritchie out of Colorado, I would be very (X 1000) happy, but removing him from their prospect pool leaves them fairly barren in that area IMO.

[BigThief]

I don't think Weeger and Anderson together will keep the Flames from being bottom feeders. Neither are true number one guys and rarely do top pairings win games on their own.

I'd sign Rasmus long term, I think he's a guy you keep around.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by BigThief

I'd sign Rasmus long term, I think he's a guy you keep around.

Why?

By the time we could be a contender, he’ll be in the back end of a contract we don’t like.

And he’s preventing us from getting better draft picks.

Plus we lose out on his trade assets.

[Nelson]

The Flames are 17th in terms of points percentage. They are in the zone of peak pain where they lose their draft pick for Florida’s (in the first or second year of the rebuild) and miss the playoffs.

[Jason14h]

But think of the winning culture we are creating . It will pay off down the road when the culture will make up for the lack of stars , because winning culture (from guys who really haven’t won much in their careers) is what wins championships

Or something like that

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Why?

By the time we could be a contender, he’ll be in the back end of a contract we don’t like.

And he’s preventing us from getting better draft picks.

Plus we lose out on his trade assets.

Without Andersson the Flames are lacking in veteran defensemen with Weegar the only veteran defenseman signed long term. I don't think it hurts the team to have Weegar and Andersson signed long term while having the rest of the defense group sort itself out with the present group of mid-20's guys and upcoming defensive prospects. The question is if Andersson wants to be on a team that's not making the playoffs for a few years. He may very well want a change of scenery which I can't fault him. He's been a really good player for this organization though and I think it would be a tough loss to overcome which may be a good thing if you want them to have a chance at a first overall pick.

[GettinIggyWithIt]

I think the Flames are regressing to expectations and will almost certainly be in the bottom 10. Bottom 5 may be a bit of a stretch. But only 3 points separate the Flames from the 10th place team in the league. They've got 9 games in December and I could easily see them going 3-6 for the rest of the month. Let's see where they stand at the end of this month.

As a result, I think Anderson, Coleman, Vladar and maybe even Kadri could be potential trade candidates at the right price. Not saying they will all get traded but I think the Flames will start seriously considering offers. That's my prediction anyways.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The problem is how do they get worse to get into that top 5 pick - they have to play sub-.375 hockey the rest of the season to even have a chance.

Really comes down to goaltending. If Wolf and Vladar slip then sub .375 hockey is definitely doable for this team.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GettinIggyWithIt

As a result, I think Anderson, Coleman, Vladar and maybe even Kadri could be potential trade candidates at the right price. Not saying they will all get traded but I think the Flames will start seriously considering offers. That's my prediction anyways.

Coleman and Kadri will be offseason moves if they go IMO.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The question is if Andersson wants to be on a team that's not making the playoffs for a few years.

Calgary is not making the playoffs for more than a few years. Or if they manage to do so, it won't be with a young team that can sustain that success long term.

Even high draft picks take time to sort themselves out.

Fantilli and Carlsson, the 2nd and 3rd picks behind Bedard, and likely on par with the top end of this years draft, are still sorting themselves out.

The draft picks that Calgary will get over the next 2-3 years won't be contributing meaningfully for a number of years. And that's even with very good drafting we've come to expect in Calgary.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But think of the winning culture we are creating . It will pay off down the road when the culture will make up for the lack of stars , because winning culture (from guys who really haven’t won much in their careers) is what wins championships

Or something like that

Yeah, that’s the pain of this train of thought re: “winning culture”.

The sequencing is:

#1 Draft franchise defining players
#2 Draft/Sign/acquire good players to play with them

If you do #2 before #1, #1 never happens…and you then live in irrelevancy. If you screw up #2 after doing #1, you live in irrelevancy.

#2 prevents you from doing #1
Doing #2 poorly ruins what you did in #1.

I would like to see #1, then we can worry about #2

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, that’s the pain of this train of thought re: “winning culture”.

The sequencing is:

#1 Draft franchise defining players
#2 Draft/Sign/acquire good players to play with them

If you do #2 before #1, #1 never happens…and you then live in irrelevancy. If you screw up #2 after doing #1, you live in irrelevancy.

#2 prevents you from doing #1
Doing #2 poorly ruins what you did in #1.

I would like to see #1, then we can worry about #2

Most people just use the restroom without putting this much thought into it.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, that’s the pain of this train of thought re: “winning culture”.

The sequencing is:

#1 Draft franchise defining players
#2 Draft/Sign/acquire good players to play with them

If you do #2 before #1, #1 never happens…and you then live in irrelevancy. If you screw up #2 after doing #1, you live in irrelevancy.

#2 prevents you from doing #1
Doing #2 poorly ruins what you did in #1.

I would like to see #1, then we can worry about #2

It feels like you have craved the Buffalo/Edmonton route and think it will be different in Calgary. Buffalo drafted several franchise level players in the last 15 years and remain a tire fire. Edmonton was saved by a once in a generation player who could be top 3 all time when it is all said and done.

I agree the Flames need high picks and I think they will get some but it is important that the Zary’s Wolf’s, Coronato’s etc play for a team that doesn’t accept losing as an option so they can be the in prime talent to surround the high picks with down the road. I think things are starting to fall for the Flames and I expect a rough couple of months ahead. Their veteran 6 make up the top 7 scorers on the team but none of them are on pace for more than 50pts.

I think this team will continue to regress and move Andersson either at the deadline or summer. Conroy wants younger players on the team, wants more draft picks and has not done a single thing to deviate from his plan to rebuild this team.

Look how many teams in similar markets than Calgary have tried and failed to do exactly what you are saying. Is Colorado the only team is a similar market that pulled it off? To me the key was MacKinnon not being a star until his 5th season when he was signed to a sweetheart deal and landing Makar with the 4th pick despite clearly being the best player in the draft 8 years later.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

It feels like you have craved the Buffalo/Edmonton route and think it will be different in Calgary. Buffalo drafted several franchise level players in the last 15 years and remain a tire fire. Edmonton was saved by a once in a generation player who could be top 3 all time when it is all said and done.

I agree the Flames need high picks and I think they will get some but it is important that the Zary’s Wolf’s, Coronato’s etc play for a team that doesn’t accept losing as an option so they can be the in prime talent to surround the high picks with down the road. I think things are starting to fall for the Flames and I expect a rough couple of months ahead. Their veteran 6 make up the top 7 scorers on the team but none of them are on pace for more than 50pts.

I think this team will continue to regress and move Andersson either at the deadline or summer. Conroy wants younger players on the team, wants more draft picks and has not done a single thing to deviate from his plan to rebuild this team.

Look how many teams in similar markets than Calgary have tried and failed to do exactly what you are saying. Is Colorado the only team is a similar market that pulled it off? To me the key was MacKinnon not being a star until his 5th season when he was signed to a sweetheart deal and landing Makar with the 4th pick despite clearly being the best player in the draft 8 years later.

I crave the Colorado, Tampa Bay, Florida route.

Which is the same as the Buffalo and Edmonton routes, just with less incompetence.

When you look at Tampa and Florida - they didn't really do anything unachievable in Calgary. Florida managed to woo Bobrovsky - that's the biggest thing that Calgary likely couldn't do (and it shouldn't be downplayed, he was huge in their success).

What Tampa and Florida did so well was draft their foundational players, do well throughout the rest of the draft, and made aggressive GOOD trades. Paying a premium for a salary retained Blake Coleman as an example for Tampa, and acquiring Reinhart and Bennett in Florida's build. On the flip side of this, Edmonton has done a bunch of dumbass stuff like pay bad free agents (Campbell), make brutally bad trades (Athanasiou), and manage their internal cap structure very poorly (hello Nurse). Buffalo and Edmonton both share a strong lack of ability on the draft floor as well (prior to Kevyn Adams at least, verdict is out on him so far). They can't draft worth a damn outside of picking in the top-5, and this isn't a problem the Flames have. The biggest problem with the Flames is lack of opportunity to draft in the top-5.

I'm confident in Conroy and the Flames scouting staff IF they have the opportunity to make those top 5 picks. If they get the opportunity to draft twice in the Top-5, especially in the next few years, I believe Conroy can build a Championship team because the Flames do a lot of the other stuff well already. They just need the opportunity.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I hope prospects of that calibre are available, but I'm not optimistic that we could nab Nemec or Ritchie (Buium I could see). If we were able to pry Ritchie out of Colorado, I would be very (X 1000) happy, but removing him from their prospect pool leaves them fairly barren in that area IMO.

I doubt we could get Buium either given Minny moved up in the draft to snag him.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I crave the Colorado, Tampa Bay, Florida route.

Which is the same as the Buffalo and Edmonton routes, just with less incompetence.

When you look at Tampa and Florida - they didn't really do anything unachievable in Calgary. Florida managed to woo Bobrovsky - that's the biggest thing that Calgary likely couldn't do (and it shouldn't be downplayed, he was huge in their success).

What Tampa and Florida did so well was draft their foundational players, do well throughout the rest of the draft, and made aggressive GOOD trades. Paying a premium for a salary retained Blake Coleman as an example for Tampa, and acquiring Reinhart and Bennett in Florida's build. On the flip side of this, Edmonton has done a bunch of dumbass stuff like pay bad free agents (Campbell), make brutally bad trades (Athanasiou), and manage their internal cap structure very poorly (hello Nurse). Buffalo and Edmonton both share a strong lack of ability on the draft floor as well (prior to Kevyn Adams at least, verdict is out on him so far). They can't draft worth a damn outside of picking in the top-5, and this isn't a problem the Flames have. The biggest problem with the Flames is lack of opportunity to draft in the top-5.

I'm confident in Conroy and the Flames scouting staff IF they have the opportunity to make those top 5 picks. If they get the opportunity to draft twice in the Top-5, especially in the next few years, I believe Conroy can build a Championship team because the Flames do a lot of the other stuff well already. They just need the opportunity.

If we are doing the Colorado route we need to sign some older free agents now.

Their route was draft MacKinnon and have a surprising good year.

Then sign Iginla and Beauchemin to big money contracts.

Then suck for awhile. Then find a second generational talent to go with their first generational talent along with their other franchise player. Then win a Cup.

We need to complete the signing old free agents portion first to follow the Colorado model. Parekh could be the first part (drafting a franchise/generational player) but we need to sign some old guys now to properly follow the bullet proof Colorado template.