Knee Surgery Info

[greyshep]

Hey guys, thought I would poll the board a bit on a topic that seems to be relatively common among those I talk to.

I was lucky enough tear my ACL (verified by MRI) playing basketball at the end of July 2019. Almost a year later I am still waiting for a surgery consultation to determine next steps and hopefully schedule a surgery date. (all dates now pushed even further out due to COVID )

So having never gone down this path previously, I have a few questions.

-For those who elected to go through the surgical route, are you glad you did? Was it a success?
-For those who had specific ACL surgery, what method did you have done (pettelar tendon, Hamstring graft or Donor graft)
-For those who elected against surgical repair and chose to live with it, what have you done to get it feeling a bit more normal? I exhausted my physio benefits and got it to a point where I can walk normally, still play hockey with a custom brace, etc. But it feels like the progress has plateaued and maybe regressed a bit.

Any other advice for someone currently waiting to make this choice?

[Hockeyguy15]

Had mine done a long time ago, like 15+ years. The younger you get it done the better, easier to bounce back. Had the patellar tendon route done because they said a bone to bone connection was better. I would do it all over again.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by greyshep

Hey guys, thought I would poll the board a bit on a topic that seems to be relatively common among those I talk to.

I was lucky enough tear my ACL (verified by MRI) playing basketball at the end of July 2019. Almost a year later I am still waiting for a surgery consultation to determine next steps and hopefully schedule a surgery date. (all dates now pushed even further out due to COVID )

So having never gone down this path previously, I have a few questions.

-For those who elected to go through the surgical route, are you glad you did? Was it a success?
-For those who had specific ACL surgery, what method did you have done (pettelar tendon, Hamstring graft or Donor graft)
-For those who elected against surgical repair and chose to live with it, what have you done to get it feeling a bit more normal? I exhausted my physio benefits and got it to a point where I can walk normally, still play hockey with a custom brace, etc. But it feels like the progress has plateaued and maybe regressed a bit.

Any other advice for someone currently waiting to make this choice?

I had a pretty negative experience. I blew out my knee playing ball hockey - but it wasn't properly diagnosed. By the time I had my surgery, followed by others, I developed stiff knee, and never got full range of motion back - despite a monumental effort and expense on my part. My knee surgeon agreed that I did everything I could and he rarely saw someone work as hard to rehab.

I eventually returned to sports with a knee brace, but was in constant pain - to the point that I was walking with a limp all the time.

I eventually went to a different expert who helped me be able to walk normally and live relatively pain free - but her strong advice was that I could never play sports again (anything with pivoting which rules out hockey, basketball, tennis, and almost everything else). She described my injury as a catastrophic knee injury.

These surgeries are usually successful but my type of outcome can happen. It is your call, but if you are able to play sports and walk normally, I would not necessarily rush into surgery.

Sports was a huge part of my life. I played ball hockey 2-3 times a week, basketball weekly, and tennis through the entire summer. I've not found a replacement for those things and miss it dearly.

Sorry I don't have a more positive story to tell.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by greyshep

Hey guys, thought I would poll the board a bit on a topic that seems to be relatively common among those I talk to.

I was lucky enough tear my ACL (verified by MRI) playing basketball at the end of July 2019. Almost a year later I am still waiting for a surgery consultation to determine next steps and hopefully schedule a surgery date. (all dates now pushed even further out due to COVID )

So having never gone down this path previously, I have a few questions.

-For those who elected to go through the surgical route, are you glad you did? Was it a success?
-For those who had specific ACL surgery, what method did you have done (pettelar tendon, Hamstring graft or Donor graft)
-For those who elected against surgical repair and chose to live with it, what have you done to get it feeling a bit more normal? I exhausted my physio benefits and got it to a point where I can walk normally, still play hockey with a custom brace, etc. But it feels like the progress has plateaued and maybe regressed a bit.

Any other advice for someone currently waiting to make this choice?

I tore mine skiing. Lived with it for a while, but would constantly re-injure it from lack of stability and tore up some more cartilage and meniscus as a result.

I ended up getting the surgery at a time when it was feeling pretty good and worked hard in the gym leading up to the surgery which I think really helped in the recovery.

I'm very glad I did it. I haven't had issues with it since. About a year or two post surgery I had full confidence to most anything. I've played hockey, soccer, ran a marathon and skied.

I am 90% sure it was patella tendon. I don't remember being given a choice actually. I think they said they would make the call once they opened it up. This was around 1995 I had it done.

[sa226]

Ive had a torn ACL for almost 10 years. I wouldn't say that I made a conscious decision not to get it repaired, it just kind of ended up that way.

It was pretty painful when it happened, Doctor couldn't diagnose it without an MRI. Apparently I have loosey goosey knee ligaments and with the swelling he couldn't tell.

In the time that I waited for an MRI and a surgeon consult I went physio and regained full range of motion and was maybe 90% painless. I would still tweak it every once in awhile and the odd time going up the stairs or something like that it would kind of hyperextend in a weird way. The doctor basically said because of my symptoms it was purely an elective surgery, and I basically had 2 options. Get it repaired, or get a brace and build up the muscles. I chose option 2. I'm not really sure where the data is on ACL tears these days, but I seem to remember debate on whether you even need one depending on lifestyle.

Anyways, fast forward 10 years and I hardly ever notice it, in fact I forgot about it until I read this thread title. I don't really do any activity that isnt "in line" like soccer, Basketball, Volleyball etc. where you're planting and pivoting. Riding a bike, running etc is all fine. The odd time I go skiing or play hockey I definitely wear my brace to protect it. But suffer no adverse affects.

I think its important to note that no 2 cases are alike. based on my MRI I only had a torn ACL, no observable surrounding injury. And while active, I wasn't regularly engaging in activities that I couldn't do anymore.

Due to moving/jobs/life/family over the past 10 years I haven't really sought out activities that would make me think twice about having the torn ACL, but I do think about it the odd time I consider joining a mens league or something.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I had a pretty negative experience. I blew out my knee playing ball hockey - but it wasn't properly diagnosed. By the time I had my surgery, followed by others, I developed stiff knee, and never got full range of motion back - despite a monumental effort and expense on my part. My knee surgeon agreed that I did everything I could and he rarely saw someone work as hard to rehab.

I eventually returned to sports with a knee brace, but was in constant pain - to the point that I was walking with a limp all the time.

I eventually went to a different expert who helped me be able to walk normally and live relatively pain free - but her strong advice was that I could never play sports again (anything with pivoting which rules out hockey, basketball, tennis, and almost everything else). She described my injury as a catastrophic knee injury.

These surgeries are usually successful but my type of outcome can happen. It is your call, but if you are able to play sports and walk normally, I would not necessarily rush into surgery.

Sports was a huge part of my life. I played ball hockey 2-3 times a week, basketball weekly, and tennis through the entire summer. I've not found a replacement for those things and miss it dearly.

Sorry I don't have a more positive story to tell.

Wow, thats really unfortunate. Sorry to hear you had a poor outcome. Glad you got your normal stride back, but thats some tough stuff to lose.

I am very active person as well, sports is huge for me. I play hockey, basketball, run and hike a fair amount. I have had to cut out basketball and running for the time being, but I would really like to add those activities back if surgery can assist. I am in my mid/late 40's though so I am low on the priority scale so my surgery wait time is going to be about as long as it gets. They seem to prioritize youngsters and the really old for this procedure.

Kinda frustrating but I guess it makes some sense.

[Kybosh]

I tore my ACL skiing and ultimately had a hamstring graft to recreate the ACL about a year an a bit ago. Leading into the surgery I did significant strength and mobility training so I went into surgery really strong (I was cycling constantly, squatting, deadlifting, various other exercises . . . continued rock climbing etc.). I couldn't jump or run before the surgery though, so that's why I selected to do it.

Based on all the prehabilitation work I did, I started recovering from the surgery pretty dang quick. I was slowly walking around without crutches a few days after the surgery on flat ground but used assistance for stairs. Things quickly came back over the next few months in terms of strength but mobility took a while. I can sit on my heels now if I warm up, but if I'm cold, forget it. I'm back to pre-surgery strength levels and can run and jump but my mechanics are a little wonky for the running still so I need to work on that. The only thing that bugs me is my hamstring craps out pretty easily, although seems to slowly get better. To be honest, my legs have gotten bigger and stronger as a result of tearing my ACL due to all the work I put in.

I don't regret the surgery but the rehab post-op was significantly harder than recuperating from the initial injury.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I tore my ACL skiing and ultimately had a hamstring graft to recreate the ACL about a year an a bit ago. Leading into the surgery I did significant strength and mobility training so I went into surgery really strong (I was cycling constantly, squatting, deadlifting, various other exercises . . . continued rock climbing etc.). I couldn't jump or run before the surgery though, so that's why I selected to do it.

Based on all the prehabilitation work I did, I started recovering from the surgery pretty dang quick. I was slowly walking around without crutches a few days after the surgery on flat ground but used assistance for stairs. Things quickly came back over the next few months in terms of strength but mobility took a while. I can sit on my heels now if I warm up, but if I'm cold, forget it. I'm back to pre-surgery strength levels and can run and jump but my mechanics are a little wonky for the running still so I need to work on that. The only thing that bugs me is my hamstring craps out pretty easily, although seems to slowly get better. To be honest, my legs have gotten bigger and stronger as a result of tearing my ACL due to all the work I put in.

I don't regret the surgery but the rehab post-op was significantly harder than recuperating from the initial injury.

Yes, I have heard that post surgery rehab is a lot of work if you want to get back to normal. I have a lot of motivation to do this so I hope that would help.

[8sPOT]

Tore my ACL playing ball hockey in around 2012.

Had surgery in Banff by Dr Mark Heard, went the hamstring graft route. The surgery itself was less than an hour. Could tell he’s done this once or twice before.

Honestly today my ‘bad’ knee is better than my ‘good’ knee. The key was the pre-rehab and then the actual rehab. Both of those greatly impact the success of the surgery IMO. Both of those also require a pretty good amount of dedication. Every day.

Definitely glad I got it done though, it was a bad tear with meniscus damage too.

[Fuzz]

^
High five to fellow Dr Heard patient! He had AC/DC playing when he did mine. Pulled a hunk of meniscus out and exclaimed "woohoo! Look a the size of that one!" as he waved it around the room.


Knee has been perfect since then, but not an ACL injury, so I guess I'm not much help.

[Csquared]

I tore my acl and meniscus skiing a few years ago and did choose to get surgery.
Curious are you waiting to see a particular doctor, as I've known people that tore their ACLs slightly before and after you and some of them have already had surgery and all that have wanted to have been through their surgical consults.
The good thing if you are waiting this long is that you should definitely know whether you want surgery or not by the time your surgical date rolls around.
I did choose the surgery route, retrospectively I don't think I should have done it even though my surgery would probably be classified as a success.
I got the hamstring graft. Quad graft is also done by some surgeons. I assume you have already looked up the pros and cons of each and just want personal experience. My hamstring did feel tight for quite awhile and is probably still slightly weaker. I am able to sprint without pain.
You'll probably have to take a few weeks off of work, even if you have an office job.
When you exhausted your physio benefits did they say you were good to go and test you, give yu exercises to practice pivoting and lateral movement?
Both for general recovery and for doing the surgery and post surgery you'll want to strengthen your leg as much as possible

[habernac]

Mine didn't tear all the way, so they basically folded it in half and stapled it together. This was 27 years ago. Rehab was hard, it held together for 20 years. I'd do it again. They gave me my knee back. You've seen me skate, shep, you know I could move.

I folded it over again 7 years ago coaching hockey. There's something wrong again, but MRI/X-ray and ultrasound apparently show nothing. I am hesitant at age 50 to have someone go in there again. Ordered a knee brace recently to see if that'll help me. Might have to do some hard core physio again.

[Kerplunk]

I've had....mixed results with knee surgeries, most likely due to my age when I had them done.

First was a patellar tendon done about 20 years ago. Was pretty good for the most part. Was able to get back into sports a year later or so, but because of how my knee is I was told to always use a brace when doing major sporting activities anyway. These days it seems a bit more flimsy than it used to, and maybe a bit of arthritis kicking in.

Four years ago or so had the other knee done using the hamstring. While the doc was in there he also did an "ALL" repair, which basically took part of my IT band and made another ligament out of a part of it. It took the better part of 2 years to get to the point where I could run at all, and this was with regular physio and daily exercises, just because things were super stiff (according to the doc). Still hard for me to bend as much as i used to, and now I wear 2 knee braces just in case.

I would say the first one I was happy to get. It got me back into sports and everything went relatively smoothly. The second...I dunno. The way my knees are it would have just kept blowing up, but sometimes the stiffness irks me.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Csquared

I tore my acl and meniscus skiing a few years ago and did choose to get surgery.
Curious are you waiting to see a particular doctor, as I've known people that tore their ACLs slightly before and after you and some of them have already had surgery and all that have wanted to have been through their surgical consults.
The good thing if you are waiting this long is that you should definitely know whether you want surgery or not by the time your surgical date rolls around.
I did choose the surgery route, retrospectively I don't think I should have done it even though my surgery would probably be classified as a success.
I got the hamstring graft. Quad graft is also done by some surgeons. I assume you have already looked up the pros and cons of each and just want personal experience. My hamstring did feel tight for quite awhile and is probably still slightly weaker. I am able to sprint without pain.
You'll probably have to take a few weeks off of work, even if you have an office job.
When you exhausted your physio benefits did they say you were good to go and test you, give yu exercises to practice pivoting and lateral movement?
Both for general recovery and for doing the surgery and post surgery you'll want to strengthen your leg as much as possible

Well thats a bit concerning/perplexing to hear. I have done all my knee appointments thru the Acute Knee Injury clinic where I was led to believe the wait times would be slightly reduced to get into the surgery lineup. I have been told the name of the surgeon that I was referred to, but when I called them at the 7 month mark since referral. (called because I hadnt heard a peep from them) they told me that the wait for a consultation is between 12-18 months!

Definitely finding this frustrating but I was being patient in not wanting to bother/nag, especially considering the healthcare situation we are in now.

I dont want to have to be "that guy" and complain about timelines but if you know of others who have managed to get care dramatically sooner that is concerning to me.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

Tore my ACL playing ball hockey in around 2012.

Had surgery in Banff by Dr Mark Heard, went the hamstring graft route. The surgery itself was less than an hour. Could tell he’s done this once or twice before.

Honestly today my ‘bad’ knee is better than my ‘good’ knee. The key was the pre-rehab and then the actual rehab. Both of those greatly impact the success of the surgery IMO. Both of those also require a pretty good amount of dedication. Every day.

Definitely glad I got it done though, it was a bad tear with meniscus damage too.

Dr. Heard also did my surgeries actually. Great guy and he did all he could.
I think he was shocked with the result I had.
I don't hold any ill will towards him.
These things are not sure things.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Also Dr Heard has an amazing story of survival
https://m.piquenewsmagazine.com/whis...nt?oid=2153621

[Redliner]

Timely thread.
I tore my ACL skiing at the end of January. The ER referred me to the Acute Knee Injury Clinic at the U of C, and I saw them for an initial assessment in early February. They informed me that I had a fully torn ACL and likely had damaged the meniscus, and referred me to a surgeon. I was extremely lucky to get in to see the surgeon very quickly, and he agreed that the ACL was fully torn but did not book me for surgery right away as my knee was still swollen and I had some range of motion issues. He did send me for an MRI, as he was concerned that I had torn cartilage or some other mechanical blockage. Not wanting to wait for up to 6 months for an MRI, I paid to have one done privately and went back to see the surgeon two weeks later. After reviewing the MRI he informed my that my ACL is only partially torn, and referred me for physio. This is where things (to me anyway) became less clear. Apparently with this injury a partial tear is actually worse than a full tear. Not because it is a more severe injury, but because it introduces a lot on uncertainty as to how best to treat it. If left uncorrected, it can create a situation where the joint is strong enough to feel "normal" but not necessarily strong enough to hold up to certain activities. In those cases it may give out suddenly and unexpectedly, often causing more damage to the joint in the process. On the other hand, surgery is not a silver bullet either, as besides the regular risk of complications or potential graft failure, there is a possibility that the "new" ligament may only become as strong as the damaged one the surgeon would have to remove as part of the reconstruction.
At this point I'm not sure what to do. I was leaning towards having the surgery but with the COVID situation cancelling all elective surgeries for the next while, I guess I have time to think about it. I did have the surgeon write me a prescription for a knee brace and will be trying that to get me through the summer and see how things feel.
To be clear, I am very active and enjoy playing tennis as well as climbing and scrambling - pastimes in which sure footing and stability are literally a matter of life and death. I also race DH mountain bikes and am concerned about the risk of having to plant a foot in difficult terrain or having a high speed crash which could damage the joint either through twisting or impact. I would be curious to know what peoples' experiences have been with not having the surgery and just getting by with the brace, and whether they feel that they ever really get back to 100% or if the limitations of the "bad" knee require a major change in lifestyle.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Redliner

Timely thread.
I tore my ACL skiing at the end of January. The ER referred me to the Acute Knee Injury Clinic at the U of C, and I saw them for an initial assessment in early February. They informed me that I had a fully torn ACL and likely had damaged the meniscus, and referred me to a surgeon. I was extremely lucky to get in to see the surgeon very quickly, and he agreed that the ACL was fully torn but did not book me for surgery right away as my knee was still swollen and I had some range of motion issues. He did send me for an MRI, as he was concerned that I had torn cartilage or some other mechanical blockage. Not wanting to wait for up to 6 months for an MRI, I paid to have one done privately and went back to see the surgeon two weeks later. After reviewing the MRI he informed my that my ACL is only partially torn, and referred me for physio. This is where things (to me anyway) became less clear. Apparently with this injury a partial tear is actually worse than a full tear. Not because it is a more severe injury, but because it introduces a lot on uncertainty as to how best to treat it. If left uncorrected, it can create a situation where the joint is strong enough to feel "normal" but not necessarily strong enough to hold up to certain activities. In those cases it may give out suddenly and unexpectedly, often causing more damage to the joint in the process. On the other hand, surgery is not a silver bullet either, as besides the regular risk of complications or potential graft failure, there is a possibility that the "new" ligament may only become as strong as the damaged one the surgeon would have to remove as part of the reconstruction.
At this point I'm not sure what to do. I was leaning towards having the surgery but with the COVID situation cancelling all elective surgeries for the next while, I guess I have time to think about it. I did have the surgeon write me a prescription for a knee brace and will be trying that to get me through the summer and see how things feel.
To be clear, I am very active and enjoy playing tennis as well as climbing and scrambling - pastimes in which sure footing and stability are literally a matter of life and death. I also race DH mountain bikes and am concerned about the risk of having to plant a foot in difficult terrain or having a high speed crash which could damage the joint either through twisting or impact. I would be curious to know what peoples' experiences have been with not having the surgery and just getting by with the brace, and whether they feel that they ever really get back to 100% or if the limitations of the "bad" knee require a major change in lifestyle.

I have done all my appointments thru the same clinic at UofC. I am going to assume you must be quite a bit younger than me, hence the quicker surgical consult? I was referred to a surgeon at the beginning of September, still waiting on a surgical consultation appointment 8 months later.

Am I doing this wrong?

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Redliner

Timely thread.
I tore my ACL skiing at the end of January. The ER referred me to the Acute Knee Injury Clinic at the U of C, and I saw them for an initial assessment in early February. They informed me that I had a fully torn ACL and likely had damaged the meniscus, and referred me to a surgeon. I was extremely lucky to get in to see the surgeon very quickly, and he agreed that the ACL was fully torn but did not book me for surgery right away as my knee was still swollen and I had some range of motion issues. He did send me for an MRI, as he was concerned that I had torn cartilage or some other mechanical blockage. Not wanting to wait for up to 6 months for an MRI, I paid to have one done privately and went back to see the surgeon two weeks later. After reviewing the MRI he informed my that my ACL is only partially torn, and referred me for physio. This is where things (to me anyway) became less clear. Apparently with this injury a partial tear is actually worse than a full tear. Not because it is a more severe injury, but because it introduces a lot on uncertainty as to how best to treat it. If left uncorrected, it can create a situation where the joint is strong enough to feel "normal" but not necessarily strong enough to hold up to certain activities. In those cases it may give out suddenly and unexpectedly, often causing more damage to the joint in the process. On the other hand, surgery is not a silver bullet either, as besides the regular risk of complications or potential graft failure, there is a possibility that the "new" ligament may only become as strong as the damaged one the surgeon would have to remove as part of the reconstruction.
At this point I'm not sure what to do. I was leaning towards having the surgery but with the COVID situation cancelling all elective surgeries for the next while, I guess I have time to think about it. I did have the surgeon write me a prescription for a knee brace and will be trying that to get me through the summer and see how things feel.
To be clear, I am very active and enjoy playing tennis as well as climbing and scrambling - pastimes in which sure footing and stability are literally a matter of life and death. I also race DH mountain bikes and am concerned about the risk of having to plant a foot in difficult terrain or having a high speed crash which could damage the joint either through twisting or impact. I would be curious to know what peoples' experiences have been with not having the surgery and just getting by with the brace, and whether they feel that they ever really get back to 100% or if the limitations of the "bad" knee require a major change in lifestyle.

Just a heads up for climbing and scrambling, I had no real issues sport climbing with a torn ACL but bouldering was a full no go. I was still leading 5.11c/d outdoor with a torn ACL. My climbing has come down a bit after the surgery but that's mostly because I'm just not climbing as much to keep skills up. You can always hangboard basically the entire time though haha. i also did multi day backpack trips before surgery and the Rockwall trail around 8 months post-op.

[Kipper is King]

I'm 31, and I'm hoping to get back into ball hockey again after a year off. This thread is making me reconsider that.