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Old 08-14-2019, 09:03 AM   #1
Mass_nerder
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Default Railway Crossing Traffic Ticket

I looked for a "General Traffic Ticket Thread" but couldn't find one, so if this needs to be moved, that's cool.
A few Sundays ago I was out in the morning near the CPR main yard in the SE industrial area; I was turning from Ogden Road onto 69th st SE, approaching the railway crossing when the crossing warning activated.
I had already turned the corner and was approaching the crossing at ~20-25 km/hr, so I continued through the crossing within ~2 seconds after the lights activated, but cleared the crossing before the arms even started to lower.

A CPR cop pulled me over a block after and gave me a $310 ticket for 42(2)(0) of the Use of Highway & Rules of the Road Reg.
The train literally just started to pass after the cop had already pulled me over, talked with me, grabbed my insurance and registration, and had gone back to his vehicle to actually write the ticket.

He basically told me that crossing have to be treated like a traffic light.
I have several questions:

- Traffic lights have a yellow warning light so that if the light changes while I'm within a certain distance of the intersection, I don't have to slam on my breaks to clear the intersection before it's unsafe; is the time between the rail crossing lights activating and the arms lowering treated in a similar manner?

- I can't find a this particular situation in Alberta Transportation's demerit list; the closest is "Failing to stop at a railway crossing (School bus or a vehicle carrying explosives, gas or flammable liquids). I was driving a regular car, so this can't apply to me. Otherwise it could be "Failing to obey instruction of traffic control device" (?)

I'm planning on fighting the ticket; I've seen the same situation a hundred times at C-train crossing without ever seeing a ticket given out. I'm just trying to get some information to bring with me.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:07 AM   #2
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How do the CP Cops even enforce that? Is there a Railway Court you have to go to? With a Judge of the Rails?

"Presenting His Honour...Judge Boxcar Willie!"

What if you dont pay it? What are they going to do? Ban you from the Railyard?
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:12 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Locke View Post
How do the CP Cops even enforce that? Is there a Railway Court you have to go to? With a Judge of the Rails?

"Presenting His Honour...Judge Boxcar Willie!"

What if you dont pay it? What are they going to do? Ban you from the Railyard?
Haha
I guess they have authority within x meters from tracks; he exasperatedly told me that it was a regular City of Calgary ticket when I asked if I could fight it where I would fight a real ticket. "It IS a real ticket"
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
How do the CP Cops even enforce that? Is there a Railway Court you have to go to? With a Judge of the Rails?

"Presenting His Honour...Judge Boxcar Willie!"

What if you dont pay it? What are they going to do? Ban you from the Railyard?
CP Rail Police have the same authority as regular police within 500m of the railway ROW or any property the railway owns. Driving anywhere along Ogden Road essentially means you're in their jurisdiction, and they can often be found there with radar guns.

"CP Police Service members have jurisdiction in any place within 500 metres of property that the railway company owns, possesses or administers. As defined by Section 2 of the Canadian Criminal Code, members have exactly the same powers as every other police officer in Canada."
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:15 AM   #5
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From what I understand CP Rail police have some pretty broad powers, as they are enforcing regulations on a Federal transport corridor. Their purpose is to ensure the safety of the railway and they do have the same authority as regular police. My old man deals with them all the time on his land that is beside a rail crossing people use to gain access to the river.

Pretty sure you fight them at traffic court.

Edit: "Broad Powers" as in people parked at or near the crossing on his land get ticketed and towed IMMEDIATELY when the rail police deal with it. They don't mess around with stuff like that, where it might take hours to get a normal cop out to ticket someone or possibly tow. They are same as regular police, just a little more aggressive in my experience.

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Old 08-14-2019, 09:16 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mass_nerder View Post
Haha
I guess they have authority within x meters from tracks; he exasperatedly told me that it was a regular City of Calgary ticket when I asked if I could fight it where I would fight a real ticket. "It IS a real ticket"
BS it is.

Seriously. If you dont pay it what is going to happen? Are two old-timey conductors going to abduct you in the middle of the night and tie you up in a grain car until one day you wake up in Winnipeg?

Granted thats a fate worse than death and not worth tempting over $300....but still!
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by sleepingmoose View Post
CP Rail Police have the same authority as regular police within 500m of the railway ROW or any property the railway owns. Driving anywhere along Ogden Road essentially means you're in their jurisdiction, and they can often be found there with radar guns.

"CP Police Service members have jurisdiction in any place within 500 metres of property that the railway company owns, possesses or administers. As defined by Section 2 of the Canadian Criminal Code, members have exactly the same powers as every other police officer in Canada."
Yeah, I actually pass by here semi-regularly, and I know where the SUV typically sits. I make a point not to speed anywhere on Ogdendale Road for this exact reason.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:17 AM   #8
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Do you even have to pull over for those guys? Seriously, if a Ctrain cop tried to pull me over I think I might flip him the bird and keep going. Do CPR cops have the same authority as real cops? What about fish and wildlife? Can those guys pull me over when I'm not in the bush?
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:17 AM   #9
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Did he drive a blue coloured explorer? I saw a guy sitting on Blackfoot trail radaring people heading east just before the Ogden bridge on Sunday. Only a few meters after where the speed limit changes from 70 to 60. Bunch of no good jackbooted thieves I tells ya.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
BS it is.

Seriously. If you dont pay it what is going to happen? Are two old-timey conductors going to abduct you in the middle of the night and tie you up in a grain car until one day you wake up in Winnipeg?

Granted thats a fate worse than death and not worth tempting over $300....but still!
I lied; looking at it again, it's not a city ticket, it's a "Violation Ticket: Canada, Province of Alberta"
Unfortunately it's definitely a legitimate ticket.
Not like an Impark "ticket".
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4X4 View Post
Do you even have to pull over for those guys? Seriously, if a Ctrain cop tried to pull me over I think I might flip him the bird and keep going. Do CPR cops have the same authority as real cops? What about fish and wildlife? Can those guys pull me over when I'm not in the bush?
Yep. CPR cops are real cops. And yep, failing to pull over to them will land you in just as much trouble as giving a CPS officer the bird and then attempting to flee.

Pretty sure transit cops are also fully qualified peace officers these days too.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tron_fdc View Post
From what I understand CP Rail police have some pretty broad powers, as they are enforcing regulations on a Federal transport corridor. Their purpose is to ensure the safety of the railway and they do have the same authority as regular police. My old man deals with them all the time on his land that is beside a rail crossing people use to gain access to the river.

Pretty sure you fight them at traffic court.
Interesting. I just figured as long as nobody was interfering with the Trains or living in a railcar or something you could just ignore the HoboPoPo.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4X4 View Post
Do you even have to pull over for those guys? Seriously, if a Ctrain cop tried to pull me over I think I might flip him the bird and keep going. Do CPR cops have the same authority as real cops? What about fish and wildlife? Can those guys pull me over when I'm not in the bush?
Yes, they are actual police and yes you have to pull over. They are privately owned but are recognized federally as a police force with all the same powers.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by 4X4 View Post
Do you even have to pull over for those guys? Seriously, if a Ctrain cop tried to pull me over I think I might flip him the bird and keep going. Do CPR cops have the same authority as real cops? What about fish and wildlife? Can those guys pull me over when I'm not in the bush?
Are we not doing 'phrasing' anymore?
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:46 AM   #15
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Huh. So, cops that can pull me over:

CPS
RCMP
Peace Officer
Sheriff
CP Rail Cops
C train cops?
Fish and Wildlife?

Anyone else? Those security guys that drive fake cop cars? EMS guys with lights on their Suburban? The fire guys that drive Escapes? Calgary Bylaw officers?

How about the First Nations police? I see them driving around town from time to time.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:49 AM   #16
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You might be stuck with this one just based on how section 42 is worded.

Railway crossing
42
(1)
For the purposes of this section a railway train is approaching a railway crossing if

(a) a clearly visible electrical or mechanical signal device
gives warning of the approach of a railway train,
(b) a crossing gate is lowered or a flagperson is giving a
signal of the approach or passage of a railway train,
(c) a railway train
(i) is within approximately 500 metres of the crossing,
(ii) is approaching the crossing, and
(iii) either sounds an audible signal or is visible,
or
(d) a railway train is visible and approaching the crossing and
by reason of its speed or nearness is an immediate hazard.
(2)
Where a railway train is approaching a railway crossing, a

person driving a vehicle that is approaching the railway crossing
(a) shall stop the vehicle no closer than 5 metres back from
the nearest rail of the railway, and
(b) shall not proceed to drive the vehicle across the railway
crossing until the train has passed by the railway crossing

He probably wrote the ticket for 42(2)(a) or (b) and it just looks like (0). His argument will be that 42(1)(a) or (c) is applicable due to the approaching train and the signal being activated and therefore you were violating either 42(2)(a) and/or (b)
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:54 AM   #17
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Mass_nerder making his getaway...

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Old 08-14-2019, 09:58 AM   #18
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So Mass Nerder, by saying you went through “2 seconds” after it was activated, do you believe you were closer than 5 m from the crossing?
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:58 AM   #19
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I assume the OP means 69 ave SE, but considering everything... I don't know, I think you're hooped.

You were definitely going slow enough to stop. I'd make the same decision probably 100/100 times if it was that close but you got caught, so that's life.

If you're going to fight this, to be honest... don't be totally honest. Say lights started when you were already within 5m of the tracks and that it was safer to proceed through than stop and potentially end up inside the crossing. That's the angle I'd go with, but you don't have many legs to stand on here.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4X4 View Post
Huh. So, cops that can pull me over:

CPS
RCMP
Peace Officer
Sheriff
CP Rail Cops
C train cops?
Fish and Wildlife?

Anyone else? Those security guys that drive fake cop cars? EMS guys with lights on their Suburban? The fire guys that drive Escapes? Calgary Bylaw officers?

How about the First Nations police? I see them driving around town from time to time.
Where's a sheriff's jurisdiction? Do they have any power in the City? I kind of feel like they're the bumpkins of policing so I don't give them any respect. Sort of figure their rules don't apply to me.
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