[Game Takes] Flames 6 Senators 1

[Bingo]

Game Takes: Flames 6 Senators 1

- Gaudreau and Tkachuk each with three points
- Flames only give up 18 shots on goal
- Senators were exhausted
- Giordano with another beast night at +4 with two points

[DoubleK]

The comments about Stone are spot on. I think they definitely bring him back next year. That cannon of a shot would be useful on PP2 and as was pointed out he can eat minutes on the bottom pairing.

Gawdin looked serviceable as a 4C. Wonder if that means that Ryan won't be resigned. I suppose they could move Mony to the wing permanently to make room or trade him or Backs.

I hope they give Kylington another game or two, he didn't impress me tonight at all and was pretty soft with the puck on the lone Senators goal. Maybe rust or maybe he's just not as good as some think.

[Strange Brew]

Hard to expect much from Kylington. Hasn’t played one what, two months? And taxi squad guys don’t even practice with the team.

I caught his post game interview on the Fan. Not surprisingly, he doesn’t sound very happy.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Surprised nobody is bringing up the comments about Giordano. I am curious how much it is going to cost the Flames to retain Giordano. Lots of people don't seem to care (or they even want Seattle to pick him).


I think at this point, the Flames have to protect Giordano, either directly throught he protection list, or working out an agreement with Seattle. Short-sighted given his age and how many years he may really have left in this league, but who is going to replace him?


Andersson has NOT taken a step forward in any part of his game, including offensively.
Tanev is a defensive-defencemen.
Hanifin has become more of a defensive defencemen too - limited offence.
Stone is a defensive defencemen, with a cannon - so he is 'Regehr-lite'.
Kylington has the tools, but... doesn't play much.
Valimaki has the tools, but doesn't show them often.
Mackey is a bit unknown how he will translate.


I am going to guess here, but without Giordano, this team will probably sit at the very bottom of the NHL in terms of offence from the backend. They were sitting 2nd last in the North Division at around the half-way point of this shortened season (with only Winnipeg behind them - not sure if that's the case still).



I don't know who the Flames will get to replace Giordano, but it doesn't look too promising at the moment. The NHL has moved to more mobile and offensive-minded defencemen that can join the rush and generate some offence. I can't say that I am confident in this group overall to do that next season, and I am vastly less confident without Giordano.

[Erick Estrada]

I would hope that enough NHL GM's have figured out after the LV expansion situation that you are better off just letting the players go than give up draft picks or make trades to keep specific players. If Treliving gives up any draft pick(s) to Seattle keep Gio for one more season that would be a fireable offense. This team isn't winning anything next season and can't afford to leverage more future assets to maintain this current level of mediocrity.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would hope that enough NHL GM's have figured out after the LV expansion situation that you are better off just letting the players go than give up draft picks or make trades to keep specific players. If Treliving gives up any draft pick(s) to Seattle keep Gio for one more season that would be a fireable offense. This team isn't winning anything next season and can't afford to leverage more future assets to maintain this current level of mediocrity.

any draft pick?

You don't think that's over the top?

What if it took Calgary a 4th round pick to retain Giordano with an eye to moving him at the trade deadline for a 1st or a 2nd?

Fire him?!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

any draft pick?

You don't think that's over the top?

What if it took Calgary a 4th round pick to retain Giordano with an eye to moving him at the trade deadline for a 1st or a 2nd?

Fire him?!

It’s essentially a pick plus whoever they end up taking. I do t think they can agree to take no one, right?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Surprised nobody is bringing up the comments about Giordano. I am curious how much it is going to cost the Flames to retain Giordano. Lots of people don't seem to care (or they even want Seattle to pick him).


I think at this point, the Flames have to protect Giordano, either directly throught he protection list, or working out an agreement with Seattle. Short-sighted given his age and how many years he may really have left in this league, but who is going to replace him?


Andersson has NOT taken a step forward in any part of his game, including offensively.
Tanev is a defensive-defencemen.
Hanifin has become more of a defensive defencemen too - limited offence.
Stone is a defensive defencemen, with a cannon - so he is 'Regehr-lite'.
Kylington has the tools, but... doesn't play much.
Valimaki has the tools, but doesn't show them often.
Mackey is a bit unknown how he will translate.


I am going to guess here, but without Giordano, this team will probably sit at the very bottom of the NHL in terms of offence from the backend. They were sitting 2nd last in the North Division at around the half-way point of this shortened season (with only Winnipeg behind them - not sure if that's the case still).



I don't know who the Flames will get to replace Giordano, but it doesn't look too promising at the moment. The NHL has moved to more mobile and offensive-minded defencemen that can join the rush and generate some offence. I can't say that I am confident in this group overall to do that next season, and I am vastly less confident without Giordano.

I think once Valimaki finds his confidence he will be more active offensively.

He showed flashes earlier in the year but now seems terrified to make a mistake.

Probably a result of Sutter essentially throwing him under the bus to the media..

Who does that to a young rookie?

I still believe in the kid even though most of the fan base is turning on him and significantly lowering their expectations because of his up and down rookie season.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

any draft pick?

You don't think that's over the top?

What if it took Calgary a 4th round pick to retain Giordano with an eye to moving him at the trade deadline for a 1st or a 2nd?

Fire him?!

Nope. Why would Seattle take that deal knowing they could in fact do the same thing? Chances are the Flames would have to give up a 2nd at least and trading 2nd round picks just happens to be a Flames tradition.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

any draft pick?

You don't think that's over the top?

What if it took Calgary a 4th round pick to retain Giordano with an eye to moving him at the trade deadline for a 1st or a 2nd?

Fire him?!

Absolutes are a bad way debate for sure.

But hard to see why Seattle accepts less than market value for passing on any player. If he is worth a first at the deadline, then risk adjust it for potential injury and that's what he should be worth to them. Or us.

Once your protected list is set, it's all about who values him more.

[ricardodw]

If the Flames leave Gio unprotected it basically forces Seattle to take him.

Who else would Seattle take? It would be between him and Lucic

Next best exposed forward on the Flames? UFA Ryan? UFA Leivo? Next best exposed D-man UFA Nesterov?

Seattle will not likely be scared away from the high cap hit for 1 year.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Nope. Why would Seattle take that deal knowing they could in fact do the same thing? Chances are the Flames would have to give up a 2nd at least and trading 2nd round picks just happens to be a Flames tradition.

Well they may like other players. They may not want his contract size. They may not want a guy with one year left.

Honestly when I look at the expansion list suggestions I have an easy time finding defensemen but it gets difficult up front.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If the Flames leave Gio unprotected it basically forces Seattle to take him. Who else would Seattle take? It would be between him and Lucic Next best exposed forward on the Flames? UFA Ryan? UFA Leivo? Next best exposed D-man UFA Nesterov? Seattle will not likely be scared away from the high cap hit for 1 year.

Talking with a friend the other day - way too many factors.
Does SEA see itself as a VGK team - win now; or are they thinking down the road? (how far? 3 yrs, 5yrs?) Are they an upper cap team, or happy to stay near the bottom? Are they going to play a fast skilled game or bruising style?

They can't be all things all the time. That just leads to spinning wheels.

Win now - you likely want Gio.
Win now, Bruising style - try Lucic
Win a little later, skill game - you may want to roll the dice on Kylington.

Speculating makes my brain hurt.

BT has to have an open and honest conversation with Gio and either pay the Iron Price to SEA, move Gio before the Ex-draft, or hope for the best.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Talking with a friend the other day - way too many factors.
Does SEA see itself as a VGK team - win now; or are they thinking down the road? (how far? 3 yrs, 5yrs?) Are they an upper cap team, or happy to stay near the bottom? Are they going to play a fast skilled game or bruising style?

They can't be all things all the time. That just leads to spinning wheels.

Win now - you likely want Gio.
Win now, Bruising style - try Lucic
Win a little later, skill game - you may want to roll the dice on Kylington.

Speculating makes my brain hurt.

BT has to have an open and honest conversation with Gio and either pay the Iron Price to SEA, move Gio before the Ex-draft, or hope for the best.

Moving Gio before the expansion draft would have to be done at what Flames fans would consider a discount.

The other team would likely have to protect him... What teams are currently sitting with only 2 d-men they want to protect?

Florida took on a protection headache when they got Bennett.

Before the trade for the Flames it would likely have been Bennett or Dube that would have been exposed to the draft. Now Dube gets protected.

So the Bennett trade becomes 2 2nds and Dube.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Moving Gio before the expansion draft would have to be done at what Flames fans would consider a discount.

The other team would likely have to protect him... What teams are currently sitting with only 2 d-men they want to protect?

Florida took on a protection headache when they got Bennett.

Before the trade for the Flames it would likely have been Bennett or Dube that would have been exposed to the draft. Now Dube gets protected.

So the Bennett trade becomes 2 2nds and Dube.

I'd say Backlund, not Dube.

No way they were letting Dube go in expansion.

[Lanny_McDonald]

If the Flames are going to give up assets to make a deal with Seattle, they should be making a deal for the Kraken to take Lucic. Get rid of that contract and get to keep Giordano for the trade deadline deal. Massive win all around. I'd be willing to give them a 2nd and any player currently on the Heat roster.

[Erick Estrada]

I imagine it would take a 1st round pick or one of the Flames top prospects for the Kraken to take on Lucic for two seasons. Not a price I would want to pay.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If the Flames leave Gio unprotected it basically forces Seattle to take him.

Who else would Seattle take? It would be between him and Lucic

Next best exposed forward on the Flames? UFA Ryan? UFA Leivo? Next best exposed D-man UFA Nesterov?

Seattle will not likely be scared away from the high cap hit for 1 year.

Kylington would be exposed, is young and comes with interesting upside. Ryan is a UFA but local and can be signed cheaply. There’s the Engelland precedent there.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Kylington would be exposed, is young and comes with interesting upside. Ryan is a UFA but local and can be signed cheaply. There’s the Engelland precedent there.

That is so sad. 4 Years ago the Flames had so little depth that they protected Lazar.

The protected and Available list from 2017

CALGARY FLAMES

Available
Brandon Bollig (F)
Lance Bouma (F)
Troy Brouwer (F)
Alex Chiasson (F)
Freddie Hamilton (F)
Emile Poirier (F)
Hunter Shinkaruk (F)
Matt Stajan (F)
Kris Versteeg (F)
Linden Vey (F)
Matt Bartkowski (D)
Ryan Culkin (D)
Deryk Engelland (D)
Michael Kostka (D)
Brett Kulak (D)
Ladislav Smid (D)
Michael Stone (D)
Dennis Wideman (D)
Tyler Wotherspoon (D)
Brian Elliott (G)
Tom McCollum (G)

Protected
Mikael Backlund (F)
Sam Bennett (F)
Micheal Ferland (F)
Michael Frolik (F)
Johnny Gaudreau (F)
Curtis Lazar (F)
Sean Monahan (F)
T.J. Brodie (D)
Mark Giordano (D)
Dougie Hamilton (D)
Mike Smith (G)


From the available list there is only Kulak, Brouwer, Engelland and Chaisson that had a more than 80 NHL games left in them ... Bouma (53) and Stajan (68) and Engelland was a UFA who was not going to sign with the Flames.

4 years later and the Flames have 1 D-man and a untradeable contract that they have to worry about.

The Engelland precedent sucks. The Kraken will end up with a much better and deeper line up than the Flames with other team's 11th/12th best players.

[GioforPM]

^ is this an attempt to make some sort of a point