Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 06-01-2011, 09:03 AM   #1
DementedReality
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default why do I need a realtor to BUY?

with all due respect to the host of this forum, i hope this is an ok subject matter.

so tell me, why do i need a realtor to buy a place? sure, its framed that it doesnt cost me anything, but clearly it does because the seller signs a contract agreeing to pay my realtor, so there is a cost built in there.

from what i can tell:

1) they set up showings
so, why cant i call realtors directly for access to their listings?
2) they do the paperwork on the contract
the paperwork is a bunch of fill in the blanks, why is the seller paying them on my behalf to do this work?
3) they speak for me to the other realtor when i make an offer
i negotiate for a living and feel quite confident in my own ability to do such negotiating

i think the system is gamed to ensure the life cycle of a realtor. other then the experience of previous negotiations, i dont know what i need a realtor for when i am buying. i would prefer the seller knock off the cost of the buying commission and if i need real estate advice, i can pay a consulting fee for that advice.

i guess i am just not that impressed with the real estate system. i am not looking to turn this into a bash realtors thread, but would like some concrete discussion on why the system has to be set up the way it is.

i will get into the specifics of my circumstances as the feedback comes in, wanted to keep this more general for now.
DementedReality is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:42 AM   #2
speede5
First Line Centre
 
speede5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Exp:
Default

You don't need a realtor, but if it is listed with one you will have to deal with their's. They will end up 'acting' on both parties behalf. No realtor will let you view a property without either your own realtor or themselves present, which is reasonable.

A good realtor will ensure you include everything you are entitled to in an offer to purchase, and ensure you get everything you paid for at possesion. You would be amazed at the crap sellers will leave behind and what they will take.

You don't need a lawyer either, but try processing your sale through land titles, or getting the bank to release funds to you without one.

If your buying, you don't usually save a whole lot bypassing a realtor, and they can find out a lot more about a property than you can, plus they have the inside track on new listings, exclusives, etc.

Selling is different, the hot markets we have had in recent years have made everyone think they don't need a realtor, and for the most part they haven't, but as times get tougher it is a lot easier to let a pro sell your house than yourself. I have done both, and selling is not my forte. Luckily I have arealtor friend who cuts me awesome deals on commision, so I have reverted to him and doubt I will try again on my own. FYI twice I have tried to sell private and gotten what I wanted in my pocket by using a realtor after failed attempts.

Selling on your own brings out all the tire kickers, nosy neighbors, etc. Realtors can bring in the same but for the most part they bring in buyers, and they deal with all the bs.
speede5 is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:46 AM   #3
DementedReality
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speede5 View Post
You don't need a realtor, but if it is listed with one you will have to deal with their's. They will end up 'acting' on both parties behalf. No realtor will let you view a property without either your own realtor or themselves present, which is reasonable. .

why is the that reasonable? the selling realtor shouldnt get both halves of the commission if i dont need their services.

ok, sure if i am the seller, i want MY realtor at the house, both to market the property but of course to ensure my belongings are safe.

but i still fail to see why i need a realtor, other then the system has been gamed to make sure that i cant get access to anything without one.
DementedReality is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:58 AM   #4
Travis Munroe
RealtorŪ
 
Travis Munroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

No issues with the thread what so ever. As a matter of fact, those are all very legitimate questions that are raised often.

Keep in mind that no 2 purchases are the same. There are often problems that arise throughout the process that your real estate agent has seen before. If you were not working with an agent then chances are you would end up paying more to your real estate lawyer for advice.
By calling the list agent directly you are not avoiding commissions on the buying side. You are giving both commissions to the list agent.
If you call a list agent for the property on 17th ave we have discussed as being a hidden train wreck then he can have you sign off as a customer (instead of client) and owe you no fiduciary duties. It is now 100% your responsibility to do all the homework. This can take hours of your time for something that would have taken me 3 minutes.
Some recent examples of how a Realtor makes things easier:
- Client just had their property go C/S. Monday i drove across town to drop off condo documents in Midnapore. We realized that many were missing and we had to have everything in within 24 hours. I ordered the documents and drove to the other end of town to pick them up. Now I had to drive back out to Midnapore to deliver the remaining documents completing the package.
There is obviously way more to this deal however that was a un foreseen circumstance that my client would have had to take the day from work to accomplish had I not been working for them.
- A friend/buyer just purchased a foreclosure downtown. Its a remarkable place and was had for under 200k. The process to buy a foreclosure is significantly different and designed to protect the bank and not the buyer. I ensured all efforts were taken so that my friend was protected and that he got the place well below market value. By viewing places in advance I was able to save him the time viewing 30 places and narrow it down to a handful based on his criteria.
- Right now I am working with a buyer looking to purchase another foreclosure. This involves me going to the court house on a specific day and waiting around from 9am to 12pm until the specific property is addressed. Throughout the process there are a number of things this buyer is/was not sure of. I think it would be fair to say he would not even be in contention for this property had he not been working with a Realtor/myself.

I think the easiest way to look at it is that the seller is paying the list agent the full commission's. The list agent then determines what of his offered commission will go towards someone who brings him a buyer.(should always be equal or greater IMO)
If you look at it this way then you will have to see if you are happy with the service being provided by the list agent. If you are a solo buyer then you need to accept the fact that the seller has paid that agent to sell their property and this is not something you can use as a negotiating tactic.
I understand those who try to sell on their own (although a very high percentage end up switching to a Realtor after exhausting time and money) as they see the potential to save however I really think that it should be a no brainer to use a Realtor when buying a property.


PS: I am not a writer so lets not discuss the flow or lack of in this post lol.
__________________

OFFICIAL CP REALTOR & PROPERTY MANAGER
Travis Munroe | Century 21 Elevate | 403.971.4300

Residential Buying & Selling
info@tmunroe.com
www.tmunroe.com

Property Management
travis@mpmCalgary.com
www.mpmCalgary.com
Travis Munroe is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:04 AM   #5
Travis Munroe
RealtorŪ
 
Travis Munroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speede5 View Post
You don't need a realtor, but if it is listed with one you will have to deal with their's. They will end up 'acting' on both parties behalf. No realtor will let you view a property without either your own realtor or themselves present, which is reasonable.

A good realtor will ensure you include everything you are entitled to in an offer to purchase, and ensure you get everything you paid for at possesion. You would be amazed at the crap sellers will leave behind and what they will take.

You don't need a lawyer either, but try processing your sale through land titles, or getting the bank to release funds to you without one.

If your buying, you don't usually save a whole lot bypassing a realtor, and they can find out a lot more about a property than you can, plus they have the inside track on new listings, exclusives, etc.

Selling is different, the hot markets we have had in recent years have made everyone think they don't need a realtor, and for the most part they haven't, but as times get tougher it is a lot easier to let a pro sell your house than yourself. I have done both, and selling is not my forte. Luckily I have arealtor friend who cuts me awesome deals on commision, so I have reverted to him and doubt I will try again on my own. FYI twice I have tried to sell private and gotten what I wanted in my pocket by using a realtor after failed attempts.

Selling on your own brings out all the tire kickers, nosy neighbors, etc. Realtors can bring in the same but for the most part they bring in buyers, and they deal with all the bs.
Well put, and you are correct about dealing with the bs however it is mostly behind closed doors so it appears that nothing is being done.

Just to add to my post. I think the biggest advantage to hiring a Realtor is to save you time (and time is money) along with bringing their knowledge of the city/buildings/rules to the table.
Add up all the time built into a single transaction from showings to closing work and you quickly see the benefits of hiring a Realtor.
__________________

OFFICIAL CP REALTOR & PROPERTY MANAGER
Travis Munroe | Century 21 Elevate | 403.971.4300

Residential Buying & Selling
info@tmunroe.com
www.tmunroe.com

Property Management
travis@mpmCalgary.com
www.mpmCalgary.com
Travis Munroe is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:41 AM   #6
DementedReality
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtor 1 View Post
No issues with the thread what so ever. As a matter of fact, those are all very legitimate questions that are raised often.

Keep in mind that no 2 purchases are the same. There are often problems that arise throughout the process that your real estate agent has seen before. If you were not working with an agent then chances are you would end up paying more to your real estate lawyer for advice.
By calling the list agent directly you are not avoiding commissions on the buying side. You are giving both commissions to the list agent.
If you call a list agent for the property on 17th ave we have discussed as being a hidden train wreck then he can have you sign off as a customer (instead of client) and owe you no fiduciary duties. It is now 100% your responsibility to do all the homework. This can take hours of your time for something that would have taken me 3 minutes.
Some recent examples of how a Realtor makes things easier:
- Client just had their property go C/S. Monday i drove across town to drop off condo documents in Midnapore. We realized that many were missing and we had to have everything in within 24 hours. I ordered the documents and drove to the other end of town to pick them up. Now I had to drive back out to Midnapore to deliver the remaining documents completing the package.
There is obviously way more to this deal however that was a un foreseen circumstance that my client would have had to take the day from work to accomplish had I not been working for them.
- A friend/buyer just purchased a foreclosure downtown. Its a remarkable place and was had for under 200k. The process to buy a foreclosure is significantly different and designed to protect the bank and not the buyer. I ensured all efforts were taken so that my friend was protected and that he got the place well below market value. By viewing places in advance I was able to save him the time viewing 30 places and narrow it down to a handful based on his criteria.
- Right now I am working with a buyer looking to purchase another foreclosure. This involves me going to the court house on a specific day and waiting around from 9am to 12pm until the specific property is addressed. Throughout the process there are a number of things this buyer is/was not sure of. I think it would be fair to say he would not even be in contention for this property had he not been working with a Realtor/myself.

I think the easiest way to look at it is that the seller is paying the list agent the full commission's. The list agent then determines what of his offered commission will go towards someone who brings him a buyer.(should always be equal or greater IMO)
If you look at it this way then you will have to see if you are happy with the service being provided by the list agent. If you are a solo buyer then you need to accept the fact that the seller has paid that agent to sell their property and this is not something you can use as a negotiating tactic.
I understand those who try to sell on their own (although a very high percentage end up switching to a Realtor after exhausting time and money) as they see the potential to save however I really think that it should be a no brainer to use a Realtor when buying a property.


PS: I am not a writer so lets not discuss the flow or lack of in this post lol.
again and with all due respect to the hard working professionals in the industry, the system is gamed to make it difficult to work without a realtor.

for example, as a seller i have to pay a buying commision, even if the buyer doesnt bring one, it just means the seller gets both ends of it.

can you image if your client tried to negotiate this with their selling agent, the answer would be a blank look and a "thats not how it works".

as for knowing of common problems in a building or other industry inside information, why cant i pay a realtor a consulting fee to advise me once i have found my property?

in the process i am going through to buy a property, i just feel that i could do a much better job of negotiating instead of playing the telephone game where i tell my realtor, she tells the other parties realtor and then they reply through their realtor to my realtor and back and forth we go.

its a stupid system really. i should be able to at least negotiate directly with the other realtor, but that would be "frowned" upon in the real estate system of business.
DementedReality is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:53 AM   #7
squiggs96
Franchise Player
 
squiggs96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Section 203
Exp:
Default

I think the biggest advantage a good realtor can bring to the table is knowledge and experience. When I bought a townhome in Vancouver I was very pleased with my realtor up until I signed the offer. She was great in finding me places and talking me through everything, but once the nitty gritty went on, I wish I had someone else.

I wanted the microwave that was bought as part of the appliance upgrade package by the owners 3 years ago when the place was new. The contract said appliances and specified some, but didn't specify the microwave and the sellers took it. My realtor wanted a possession date two days before I did to make it easy for lawyers, but my possession date ended by making me the owner of record for the AGM and thus I had to pay $400 for a strata levy for a budget deficit. The money wasn't the problem here, just the fact that I wanted a different day and she didn't pick up that her date cost me money. The sellers took the window coverings and it took me two weeks to get them back. I even had to go pick up the keys myself from the seller's realtor because mine was busy that day.

I am much wiser on how to approach purchasing property now than when I bought my first one. Looking back, I feel that my realtor should have picked up some of these things. I am very happy with the property, but with a better realtor I would have had spent less money and had more things. Now when I interview a realtor I ask better questions and I get better results. Yes the paperwork can be done by most anyone, but the knowledge my realtor has and their willingness to fight on my behalf is what I value.
squiggs96 is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:07 AM   #8
ken0042
Playboy Mansion Poolboy
 
ken0042's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
Exp:
Default

The seller is paying the realtor fee; so I see no reason to not have a realtor of your own. He/she is there to look after your interests; I have seen enough shows on HGTV to see there is the potential for conficts of interest. Most of the time that ends up with the realtor saying "I cannot comment."

When I bought my house, my realtor pointed out that it looked like the house was being sold as part of a divorce. Seeing that motivation he helped me come up with an offering price that was to my advantage.

Also, as Travis said you can tell your realtor what you are looking for; and he can start sending you listings. Make him work for his money- that is why he is there.
ken0042 is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:11 AM   #9
Travis Munroe
RealtorŪ
 
Travis Munroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality View Post
again and with all due respect to the hard working professionals in the industry, the system is gamed to make it difficult to work without a realtor.

for example, as a seller i have to pay a buying commision, even if the buyer doesnt bring one, it just means the seller gets both ends of it.
Chances are that buyer showed up on the door step because of the marketing done by the list agent. Therefor I do believe the list agent brought the buyer.

can you image if your client tried to negotiate this with their selling agent, the answer would be a blank look and a "thats not how it works".
The 2 words you mentioned "negotiate and commissions" do actually go together. This is often done to put a deal together.

as for knowing of common problems in a building or other industry inside information, why cant i pay a realtor a consulting fee to advise me once i have found my property?

A very weak example that came to mind is doing your taxes. You can pay someone to do them with you and have the 1 on 1 and discuss tactics or you can pay a fraction of the cost on software and take the time to do it yourself and possibly miss out on some important aspects.


in the process i am going through to buy a property, i just feel that i could do a much better job of negotiating instead of playing the telephone game where i tell my realtor, she tells the other parties realtor and then they reply through their realtor to my realtor and back and forth we go.
It sounds like you just may not be happy with how your realtor is handling things.

its a stupid system really. i should be able to at least negotiate directly with the other realtor, but that would be "frowned" upon in the real estate system of business.
You are free to do whatever you like. realtors pay thousands of dollars each year to be a part of CREB, AREA, CREA and more. This gives us access to tools that the general public does not have. It is a short course that just about anyone can pass (unfortunate IMO as so many realtors are part time or lack knowledge which can bring a bad rep among all realtors ). I think if it were more difficult to be in the industry the profession would be more respected than it is.
__________________

OFFICIAL CP REALTOR & PROPERTY MANAGER
Travis Munroe | Century 21 Elevate | 403.971.4300

Residential Buying & Selling
info@tmunroe.com
www.tmunroe.com

Property Management
travis@mpmCalgary.com
www.mpmCalgary.com
Travis Munroe is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Travis Munroe For This Useful Post:
Old 06-01-2011, 11:14 AM   #10
Travis Munroe
RealtorŪ
 
Travis Munroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

PS: great thread lol, havent seen double digits visiting the section in a while!!!
__________________

OFFICIAL CP REALTOR & PROPERTY MANAGER
Travis Munroe | Century 21 Elevate | 403.971.4300

Residential Buying & Selling
info@tmunroe.com
www.tmunroe.com

Property Management
travis@mpmCalgary.com
www.mpmCalgary.com
Travis Munroe is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:34 AM   #11
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Having bought and sold a few homes already when I saw my current home on the market (10 years ago) I called the listing agent and arranged a viewing, I made an offer through her that was significantly lower than the asking price (40,000 less on a 289,000 house). Told her she could split the discount with the sellor and her fee. She didn't like it, as she was licking her lips at the prospect of a double commision but it went through in the end.

Got the house for 249,000, now worth 720,000.

There is only one party paying the realtor fees in the end and that is the vendor. If you are buying you have no one looking after you in practise anyway.

Last edited by afc wimbledon; 06-01-2011 at 11:37 AM.
afc wimbledon is online now  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:43 AM   #12
DementedReality
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken0042 View Post
The seller is paying the realtor fee; so I see no reason to not have a realtor of your own. He/she is there to look after your interests; I have seen enough shows on HGTV to see there is the potential for conficts of interest. Most of the time that ends up with the realtor saying "I cannot comment."

I would like the seller to NOT pay his realtor the buying commission and instead reduce the huose price. Failing that, the selling realtor could just give me the buying commission. But as I said, the system is gamed so that this would be a "huh, umm what" moment.

When I bought my house, my realtor pointed out that it looked like the house was being sold as part of a divorce. Seeing that motivation he helped me come up with an offering price that was to my advantage.

My understanding is realtors are specifically not permitted to discuss the sellers or buyers motivations. no?

Also, as Travis said you can tell your realtor what you are looking for; and he can start sending you listings. Make him work for his money- that is why he is there.

Seems to be a no brainer if the realtor wants me to buy something, makes sense they will send me listings to consider. thats not really me making them earn their money, thats them trying to get me interested in a listing.
I still feel the system is gamed so that realtors can be in business.

honest question - if i called a realtor and said i was buying without a realtor and -
a) wanted to view their listing
b) expected the buying commission to either be reduced from the purchase price or paid to me directly

what would the answers be?
DementedReality is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DementedReality For This Useful Post:
Old 06-01-2011, 11:48 AM   #13
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality View Post
I still feel the system is gamed so that realtors can be in business.

honest question - if i called a realtor and said i was buying without a realtor and -
a) wanted to view their listing
b) expected the buying commission to either be reduced from the purchase price or paid to me directly

what would the answers be?
a) What time do you want to see the house?

b) we can discuss price later.
afc wimbledon is online now  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:51 AM   #14
Travis Munroe
RealtorŪ
 
Travis Munroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
a) What time do you want to see the house?

b) we can discuss price later.
Bang on...

I have done this and why wouldnt I.
I can be paid 1 side commissions selling the house with another agent or I can be paid 2 sides and discount some of the commissions so that the buyer, seller and myself are all happy!
__________________

OFFICIAL CP REALTOR & PROPERTY MANAGER
Travis Munroe | Century 21 Elevate | 403.971.4300

Residential Buying & Selling
info@tmunroe.com
www.tmunroe.com

Property Management
travis@mpmCalgary.com
www.mpmCalgary.com
Travis Munroe is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:54 AM   #15
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

I wouldn't recomend buying your first house without a realtor, but I had 3 under my belt when I found myself with money and no house to sell. Normally you are selling a house as you are buying and the one agent handles it all.
afc wimbledon is online now  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:58 AM   #16
DementedReality
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

thanks all .. good discussion and let me get some stuff of my chest! now i gotta make some money, so will be back later to stir the pot if i can!
DementedReality is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 08:50 AM   #17
Sliver
evil of fart
 
Sliver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Exp:
Default

Demented Reality, the best thing to do is negotiate the realtor's commission upfront. I also think paying a percentage of the sale price of the house to somebody for what can amount to a few hours of work is insane.

Every deal I've done I've made sure I don't pay full commission. Especially since I prefer to write my own feature sheet (and my wife designed it), MLS ad, etc. I also like searching MLS myself, not having my realtor vet things for me.

As for negotiating, I find it painful having to go through somebody on that, but I basically just made him say what I wanted. In the end he did earn what I paid him - I need him to get on MLS, enter houses conveniently, he handled all the paperwork, etc. But at full price I would have felt totally ripped off.

I think it depends a lot on the client. My realtor had to put maybe a couple of days total into my file to both sell my old house and buy my new one. I think he took us on about five showings (we knew exactly what we wanted and where). I can see how less decisive people could monopolize a realtor's time, need everything spoon fed to them, etc., which starts to make the standard commission schedule a lot more fair.

On my next house purchase I'm going to find a realtor that will work on an hourly rate, capped at the standard commission rate. I think that would save me even more money, and I'd still make it worth the realtor's time.

Last edited by Sliver; 06-02-2011 at 08:58 AM.
Sliver is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sliver For This Useful Post:
Old 06-02-2011, 10:15 AM   #18
SeoulFire
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 서울특별시
Exp:
Default

The whole industry (to a certain extent) is a self-licking ice cream cone.
SeoulFire is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:37 AM   #19
bizaro86
Franchise Player
 
bizaro86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality View Post
1) they set up showings
so, why cant i call realtors directly for access to their listings?
I actually tried buying a place without a realtor, and this ended up being a huge PITA. I'd call the listing realtor, and leave a message with the broker's main answering service. Then, two days later, I'd get a call back offering 2 times that weren't convenient to me to go see the place. I also got the privilege of talking each realtor down from trying to sign me up as their client. Lots of fun.

When I go with a buyer's agent I call me Realtor's direct cell line, and arrange all the times for the places I want to see, and I go see them all in quick succession.
bizaro86 is offline  
Old 06-04-2011, 12:54 AM   #20
Winsor_Pilates
Franchise Player
 
Winsor_Pilates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Van City - Main St.
Exp:
Default

To the OP, I think you should just try buying without a Realtor if you feel strongly about it. If it works out for you, great!
It seems you're looking to bait Realtors into an argument here, where any half decent Realtor would just respect your opinion and wish you well.

Why would we want to represent a buyer who doesn't value our service anyway? If simply saving the buyers agent commission is what you're after, than power to you.
Winsor_Pilates is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:41 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021