Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[belsarius]

I honestly don't think a name change will do all that much to change anything.

People still vote for the CPC thinking they are voting for Mulroney's PCs when they are actually now voting Reform.

People still vote UCP thinking they are voting for Klein's PCs, when they are actually now voting Wildrose.

People still claim that the UCP had 40 years to fix things, as if they are the same party as the PCs

Even with a name change the election rhetoric will still be the same, just a whole lot of ads pointing out how "XXXX" is just a rebranded ANDP with the same insidious socialist plot.

They want to step away from their affiliation with the Federal NDP, then sure, change the party, but that is WAY more than just a name change they would have to do.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I honestly don't think a name change will do all that much to change anything.

People still vote for the CPC thinking they are voting for Mulroney's PCs when they are actually now voting Reform.

People still vote UCP thinking they are voting for Klein's PCs, when they are actually now voting Wildrose.

People still claim that the UCP had 40 years to fix things, as if they are the same party as the PCs

Even with a name change the election rhetoric will still be the same, just a whole lot of ads pointing out how "XXXX" is just a rebranded ANDP with the same insidious socialist plot.

They want to step away from their affiliation with the Federal NDP, then sure, change the party, but that is WAY more than just a name change they would have to do.

They've already changed the party/policy from the federal NDP style, eg on their pipeline policy. But the NDP name is toxic to enough low-engagement voters that it will make it very difficult for them to win with it (probably only with a vote split on the right).

That's cool if the true believers are running the show and don't want change, but personally I'd like to have an actual alternative to the folks running the show now, and I think the NDP changing their name is the only way that happens.

I also think they should change their colours. I recommend purple to go with their new leader.

[Ozy_Flame]

Any low-hanging fruit changes the moderate/centrist/progressive movement can make politically in Alberta, they should. A name change will go a long way.

I do think more importantly, they need a charismatic leader than can expose Danielle Smith, TBA, and their positions on governance. The NDP and progressives in general have been abysmal in articulating the gaps the UCP are leaving and coherently explaining what they would do instead.

By that logic, I think renamed NDP party with a new, likeable and charismatic leader playing an aggressive role with a shadow cabinet constantly on the UCP's toes would go a long way. And they need to be in front of the media constantly as well.

[Fuzz]

Doesn't matter what the opposition does, if Alberta doesn't have 2 right of centre parties splitting the votes, the opposition isn't going to win. Voters just aren't that smart, and that's the real problem. And since fact based education and journalism don't seem to be high priorities, I don't see that changing any time soon.


Remember, voters chose Danielle Smith. Why would anyone expect a name change, new leader, or different colour is going to make a lick of difference?

[Izzle]

Calgarians deffo need to get their #### together.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

They've already changed the party/policy from the federal NDP style, eg on their pipeline policy. But the NDP name is toxic to enough low-engagement voters that it will make it very difficult for them to win with it (probably only with a vote split on the right).

That's cool if the true believers are running the show and don't want change, but personally I'd like to have an actual alternative to the folks running the show now, and I think the NDP changing their name is the only way that happens.

I also think they should change their colours. I recommend purple to go with their new leader.

Unfortunately, I don't think it can be overstated how dumb the average voter can be. I frankly think that the NDP under a different name and colour may have won out this election. They are pretty far apart already from the federal NDP and are linked out of convenience at this point.

New party under the leadership of Nenshi, purple branding and call it the Wildrose Alliance Party, and let's see Smith squirm. I'll vote for it.

[Ozy_Flame]

Changing demographics is what changes things.

All of those imports from British Columbia and Ontario due to the housing crisis is going to dramatically impact the voting base in Alberta. And by that I mean it's going to balance it out significantly. The mass migration towards Alberta is still ongoing, and whether anyone wants to believe it or not, the NDP didn't have to change their name, change their color, or change their leader to get within striking distance of a victory in the last election in 2023. No conservative vote split needed.

Then you have a continuing decay of public education and healthcare, at which is going to reach boiling point over the next one to two years. People don't stand for such low standards when a province as filthy rich as Alberta can do something about it financially and very quickly.

And unless something dramatically changes in the way that Daniel Smith and the UCP govern, they're just tallying up bad track record that will be used against them in 2027.

Alberta called, and the people are responding whether the conservatives like it or not.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Doesn't matter what the opposition does, if Alberta doesn't have 2 right of centre parties splitting the votes, the opposition isn't going to win. Voters just aren't that smart, and that's the real problem. And since fact based education and journalism don't seem to be high priorities, I don't see that changing any time soon.


Remember, voters chose Danielle Smith. Why would anyone expect a name change, new leader, or different colour is going to make a lick of difference?

Maybe the thinking is "if they were dumb enough to vote for Danielle Smith, they're dumb enough to be fooled by a branding change"?

[Frequitude]

The division is not left-right in this province, it is urban-rural.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Changing demographics is what changes things.

All of those imports from British Columbia and Ontario due to the housing crisis is going to dramatically impact the voting base in Alberta. And by that I mean it's going to balance it out significantly. The mass migration towards Alberta is still ongoing, and whether anyone wants to believe it or not, the NDP didn't have to change their name, change their color, or change their leader to get within striking distance of a victory in the last election in 2023. No conservative vote split needed.

And unless something dramatically changes in the way that Daniel Smith and the UCP govern, they're just tallying up bad track record that will be used against them in 2027.

Alberta called, and the people are responding whether the conservatives like it or not.

Agreed that this is how it will change in Alberta and maybe we're beginning to see a shift. Also I think this time as younger people become of voting age they may actually get out and do so and that would be bad for the UPC. One thing to consider though. Alberta has been bringing in waves of interprovincial migration for decades and it has barely budged the needle (overall) on voting patterns. At least until recently. Lots of theories on why but's it's fascinating. Maybe times are changing now though.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I do think more importantly, they need a charismatic leader than can expose Danielle Smith, TBA, and their positions on governance. The NDP and progressives in general have been abysmal in articulating the gaps the UCP are leaving and coherently explaining what they would do instead.
.

This 1000% Smith is a great communicator and quick on her feet. She killed the NPD's Smith-is-crazy by coming across normal and in control in the debate. The NDP needs someone who can match her on that, and then skewer her on what she actually says, not just how she says it.

[puffnstuff]

I dont think she a very good communicator at all
But when one isnt tethered to the truth at all...

[btimbit]

Agreed, I'm not sure I'd call her a great communicator. But a fantastic bull####ter

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Agreed, I'm not sure I'd call her a great communicator. But a fantastic bull####ter

OK, I'll go with this. Smooth-talker in the worst way.

[D as in David]

It's highly unlikely that Smith will still be at the helm of the UCP come the next election. As you may recall, the Conservatives have not had a leader that made it through an entire election cycle as leader of the party since Klein's second last win.

They eat their own.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Doesn't matter what the opposition does, if Alberta doesn't have 2 right of centre parties splitting the votes, the opposition isn't going to win. Voters just aren't that smart, and that's the real problem. And since fact based education and journalism don't seem to be high priorities, I don't see that changing any time soon.


Remember, voters chose Danielle Smith. Why would anyone expect a name change, new leader, or different colour is going to make a lick of difference?

I mean, the NDP lost the last election under the NDP name.

That isn't evidence they would have lost it under a different name.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I mean, the NDP lost the last election under the NDP name.

That isn't evidence they would have lost it under a different name.

Nor is it evidence that they would have won it under a different name.

[Bigtime]

Good writeup on Nenshi and a potential NDP leadership bid from Jason Markusoff:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ysis-1.7105836

[Weitz]

I don’t think Nenshi moves the needle for people who don’t support the NDP to start supporting them. Especially with the slide he was experiencing as mayor towards the end.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Nor is it evidence that they would have won it under a different name.

Nope, but it was presented as evidence that they couldn't win no matter what.

It's like the Simpson's meme: "we've tried nothing - and we're all out of ideas!"

The ANDP has polling that their name is hurting them, and Notley refused to change it out of deference to her father. IMO, that's a bad reason for the rest of us to get stuck with Smith.