Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Again, any chance you'll ask that same question of the UCP?

Haven't we been over this?

[undercoverbrother]

There is a lot of back and forth in this thread, but for me the singular reason I will not vote for the UCP is Danielle Smith.

I don't need to dig or unpack or compare, she isn't (IMO) a good person. She isn't (IMO) a smart person. She isn't (IMO) someone that should be leading a government.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

There is a lot of back and forth in this thread, but for me the singular reason I will not vote for the UCP is Danielle Smith.

I don't need to dig or unpack or compare, she isn't (IMO) a good person. She isn't (IMO) a smart person. She isn't (IMO) someone that should be leading a government.

I would contend that there's a lot of information flowing one way and a lot of ear plugging and shouting happening on the other end. Hardly a "back and forth".
But your point remains untouchable.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

There is a lot of back and forth in this thread, but for me the singular reason I will not vote for the UCP is Danielle Smith.

I don't need to dig or unpack or compare, she isn't (IMO) a good person. She isn't (IMO) a smart person. She isn't (IMO) someone that should be leading a government.

You could remove all the IMOs. The things you said are verified facts. Even the people voting for her know all those things, they just don't care.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

You could remove all the IMOs. The things you said are verified facts. Even the people voting for her know all those things, they just don't care.

That is imprecise language and all facts have equally important alternative facts

[MBates]

Originally Posted by fotze2

But at the same time, you see this absolute moronic commentary "oil companies cannot pay for their liabilities". Company A goes under so CNRL has to pay? WTF? They have set up an orphan fund to pay for their ####ty bros.

Does Humptys need to pay Galaxie Diners employees salary when they go out of business. F No. Your neighbor three doors down doesn't pay for his reno, now you are on the hook.

Well, if you want to make your analogies fair...wouldn't the second one be more like your neighbour three doors down in a gloriously modern mansion is not paying for finishing a reno project he started in your far less opulent house...after the government legislation allowed him to come into your house and rip the place up and you were not legally able to refuse?

I mean the trade off for the industry to collectively be able to make their massive profits operating on other people's land, whether the landowner consents or not, is that the industry collectively commits to make reasonable surface lease payments and then leave those landowners with properly reclaimed land when they are done.

It is probably the least objectionable regulatory requirement I can think of in the circumstances.

[Muta]

I still don't understand why the provincial government can't just say, 'clean up your orphan wells or face severe penalties or charges, period'. If anyone can afford to pay for that cleanup, it's the companies responsible for them. Bus Boobs is a spineless dweeb and is throwing away a really easy and revenue source with her embarrassing 'incentive' program.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Muta

I still don't understand why the provincial government can't just say, 'clean up your orphan wells or face severe penalties or charges, period'. If anyone can afford to pay for that cleanup, it's the companies responsible for them. Bus Boobs is a spineless dweeb and is throwing away a really easy and revenue source with her embarrassing 'incentive' program.

Don’t they just dissolve their company and slink away.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Don’t they just dissolve their company and slink away.

Or sell them to an unsuspecting company / person / dentist when they’ve bled the wells 95% dry… just before cleanup is needed

[Yoho]

Sounds like a smart fiscal idea.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1654237979685126144

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Don’t they just dissolve their company and slink away.

Then any directors should be free game to go after both criminally and also held personally civilly liable. I don’t know why that isn't the way it is now.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by fotze2

As a fellow oilpatch guy this R* thing is gross and embarassing.

If this incentive is a go forward thing, I can see the point/kinda.

I started 20+ many years ago working for the orphan well program. This was absolutely a 100% foreseeable problem. Companies like Cenovus (BBS, or its predecessor) and more importantly CNRL would send very heavy handed letters (that was the way at the time) and I would be forced to remove language/things from Directive 13, G20, all that.

None of that really would have helped. Back 30 years ago Imperial sold a field in big valley with a couple hundred wells and a battery/plant to a dentist. A clear unloading of liabilities on to a ignorant person who ran it into the ground and went bankrupt. Now we have to clean up the stuff.

That is an example of why the orphan fund and LLR and deposits and all this came into effect.

How the hell did Lexin get those assets (2000+ wells), who the hell did Sequoia get those assets? It is 99.9% because they do not have anyone that has a clue.

But at the same time, you see this absolute moronic commentary "oil companies cannot pay for their liabilities". Company A goes under so CNRL has to pay? WTF? They have set up an orphan fund to pay for their ####ty bros.

Does Humptys need to pay Galaxie Diners employees salary when they go out of business. F No. Your neighbor three doors down doesn't pay for his reno, now you are on the hook.

I’m not really sure what you are ranting about here. We were talking about the site rehabilitation program.

Yah the industry has issues. The AER has been slow to close the loop holes but they have/are working on it. Take a look at the Pieradae purchase of the shell assets. They can’t afford the liability but are on a hope and a prayer for LNG. But the deal only went through on paper with shell still back stopping that liability. It’s coming around with programs like mandatory spend on liability’s that was rolled out this year. It’s slow but hopefully coming and will lead to a healthier industry.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Muta

I still don't understand why the provincial government can't just say, 'clean up your orphan wells or face severe penalties or charges, period'. If anyone can afford to pay for that cleanup, it's the companies responsible for them. Bus Boobs is a spineless dweeb and is throwing away a really easy and revenue source with her embarrassing 'incentive' program.

I’d probably learn what an orphan well is first and then realize why they can’t say that.

[timun]

Anecdotal campaign signage sighted in Calgary-Elbow:

• Mount Royal/Elbow Park: 70% UCP, 25% NDP, 5% AP
• South Calgary: 50% NDP, 30% UCP, 20% AP
• Altadore: 45% NDP, 40% UCP, 15% AP
• North Glenmore Park: 45% UCP, 40% NDP, 15% AP

My gut feeling is it ends up similar to 2019: AP and NDP vote-splitting will give the UCP candidate a plurality of the vote.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I’d probably learn what an orphan well is first and then realize why they can’t say that.

Nah, just tell me here. Seems like you know!

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by timun

Anecdotal campaign signage sighted in Calgary-Elbow:

• Mount Royal/Elbow Park: 70% UCP, 25% NDP, 5% AP
• South Calgary: 50% NDP, 30% UCP, 20% AP
• Altadore: 45% NDP, 40% UCP, 15% AP
• North Glenmore Park: 45% UCP, 40% NDP, 15% AP

My gut feeling is it ends up similar to 2019: AP and NDP vote-splitting will give the UCP candidate a plurality of the vote.

The Alberta Party could very well draw votes away from the UCP.
I think (Fingers crossed/hope), that there is a bit of a shift.

NDP voters from 2019 don't change
AP voters from 2019 either stay with AP or shift NDP
UCP voters either stay with UCP or shift to AP

So I could see something like the UCP vote goes down, the AP vote stays the same, and the NDP vote goes up.
It would look like a shift from UCP to NDP, but it could be more of a slide to the left than a straight switch.

This is my hopeful outcome.

I'm a good example of this.
In 2019 I didn't like what I saw in the UCP so I volunteered quite heavily for the AP in 2019.
This year I've got an NDP sign on my lawn.

I'm hoping, at worst, there are quite a few UCP voters who are just 1 election cycle behind me.

[Cappy]

Saw this on Reddit, and there was a link to another picture showing it's legit, but Danielle Smith has a tattoo on her arm for the Liberty Fund - a libertarian organization out of the US.

https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/com...ttoo_of_a_far/

what a weird tattoo to have.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Saw this on Reddit, and there was a link to another picture showing it's legit, but Danielle Smith has a tattoo on her arm for the Liberty Fund - a libertarian organization out of the US.

https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/com...ttoo_of_a_far/

what a weird tattoo Premier to have.

Fixed that for you

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

So, you get your power, water and gas shut off because you had a down month? At least you will have a nice sun room.

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, that's totally what I'm driving at.

Actually, I think this is a good analogy. Let's say you've historically lived paycheque to paycheque. You've decided to borrow to build your sunroom so you can enjoy your home a bit more. A year later you suddenly lose your job, you live off of the severance for a month or so, but you're not having any luck finding a new job, you've got a few interviews coming up, but no offers, and no paycheque.

What do you do? You have -$2000 in your bank account and you have to pay your utilities and mortgage. Do you sell off everything you own to continue to pay those bills or do you borrow from your HELOC to buy you some time?

And let me be specific, you DO NOT have any savings. Your financial planning for the last 44 years has been to not build up those savings.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Muta

I still don't understand why the provincial government can't just say, 'clean up your orphan wells or face severe penalties or charges, period'. If anyone can afford to pay for that cleanup, it's the companies responsible for them. Bus Boobs is a spineless dweeb and is throwing away a really easy and revenue source with her embarrassing 'incentive' program.

Originally Posted by Weitz

I’d probably learn what an orphan well is first and then realize why they can’t say that.

Originally Posted by Muta

Nah, just tell me here. Seems like you know!

Weitz alludes to the answer. By definition an orphan well has no owner therefore there is nothing to go after, the company does not exist.