Let's talk about: Oliver Kylington

[EVERLAST]

Pretty awesome that this discussion is happening. Darryl plays guys more when they need it, and when he needs to get the attention of said player he has other methods which I've observed to be extremely useful.

What he gets out of players is pretty amazing because you don't have every coach in the league having that same impact otherwise the coaching carousel would be worse .

Man I'm glad #58 is still here and improving daily ....climbing that depth chart and making other guys work harder because of it. Healthy competition never hurts .

It's weird though. I felt the same way about Gio when he refused to be assigned to the AHL way back in 2008 and chose to go the route he did.

He came back and in short order had Scotty Bowman call him the most improved player in the League.....that says something.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I dont know. There's a long list he has to jump over. Might supplant Razz if he keeps this up. And Razz is 8th on the depth chart.

Its not that long and his skating would be a perfect fit for this tournament

[activeStick]

Really happy with Kylington's play so far this year. I mentioned in the offseason how I was hoping he'd win a regular spot as I've always like the player and his untapped offensive ability. What I don't understand is the argument that now that he's made it this year, that the Flames some how mismanaged his development. Him making it now and being much improved on the defensive side of his game (pretty important being a defenseman) actually tells me that the way the Flames managed his development was right. Reeled him in when his D game wasn't up to snuff, working with him on improving positioning and decision-making and here we are today, with the kid playing in a Top 4 role.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by heep223

I was wrong about this guy. Didn’t think he had the IQ to settle his game down. He looks fantastic

The FAN 960 did a long interview with Håkan Loob the year Kylington was drafted. He said, in effect, that Kylington is a player who needs steady coaching, and his stock fell in his draft year because he was bounced from team to team and never got to settle in with one coach or one system.

The carousel of replacement-level coaches in Calgary must have been terrible for Kylington's development. Having a top-flight coach like Sutter come in and spell out exactly how he needs to work on his game, it appears, is just what the doctor ordered.

[genetic_phreek]

Speed kills

[Snuffleupagus]

It appears he has made Valimaki expendable, I wonder if the Rangers would have interest in a trade for Kravtsov.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It appears he has made Valimaki expendable, I wonder if the Rangers would have interest in a trade for Kravtsov.

What kind of logic is that?

6 dmen dress every night.

I have no issue, and actually like the idea of our top 6 having the likes of Hanifin, Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki in it.

These 4 and Tanev are the last ones I would consider expendable.

Gudbranson, Zadorov, Stone… these are the guys that are expendable.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

What kind of logic is that?

6 dmen dress every night.

I have no issue, and actually like the idea of our top 6 having the likes of Hanifin, Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki in it.

These 4 and Tanev are the last ones I would consider expendable.

Gudbranson, Zadorov, Stone… these are the guys that are expendable.

Or we could be happy that we have a piece like valimaki we could potentially dangle in a trade to upgrade forward skill. Mackey, Kuznetsov, Poirier etc are all waiting in the wings too.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It appears he has made Valimaki expendable, I wonder if the Rangers would have interest in a trade for Kravtsov.

Rangers are pretty stacked on the blue line
I think they would be looking for a forward

[GranteedEV]

Someone from the media asked Rasmus and Backlund some Qs about their fellow Swede the other day:

[GS Skier]

The fly in the ointment is Kjillingtons next contract. He'll want to be paid if his season continues this way. Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Mango are all going to cost about 2 million more each if the team wants to keep them. It's going to get pretty tight next year if these players continue an upward trajectory.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

What kind of logic is that?

6 dmen dress every night.

I have no issue, and actually like the idea of our top 6 having the likes of Hanifin, Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki in it.

These 4 and Tanev are the last ones I would consider expendable.

Gudbranson, Zadorov, Stone… these are the guys that are expendable.

Sutter logic, Zadorov is playing very well and unless there's an injury on LD Valimaki is just a seat warmer in the pressbox.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The real answer is it's a combination of everything being said in this thread.

- Kylington wasn't this player previously. He showed flashes but still wasn't consistent and was not really using his skillset to drive or create offense. The advanced stats support this as that JFresh chart indicates.

- That being said even though he wasn't a fully finished product he still deserved more opportunities than he received the last season. Going from 48 games in 19-20 to playing in 8 games in 20-21 was ridiculous. He could have played more in a rotation with Valimaki (49 games) and Nesterov (38 games) for sure.

- It was great on the player to really take his development seriously this offseason. He came into the season in better shape than he's ever been (3rd in fitness testing) and really forced the team to give him more of a shot. Part of this is opportunity, but a big part of this was Kylington really stepping up his game from the first day of pre-season.

- And good on Sutter for actually putting him in a position to have this success in a pairing with Tanev for the most part, even if he did default to the veteran in Zadorov initially.

This was an excellent summary.

And good to see some real estate between the two extremes in the conversation.

I'm pretty sure Calgary coaches and GMs get it wrong all the time when it comes to projecting players and dolling out opportunity. Every team does. But the player can't be ignored in the process either, and in this case the player seems to have taken steps.

That's just great on it's own isn't it?

Not sure why some want to believe the team they supposedly cheer for is at fault for everything that goes wrong, and lucky and not involved when things go right.

[edslunch]

OMG CalgaryPuck. There are enough examples where management screwed up with lasting consequences. This doesn’t appear to be one of them. Can we just enjoy this player?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure why some want to believe the team they supposedly cheer for is at fault for everything that goes wrong, and lucky and not involved when things go right.

Because this is a hyperbolic way to frame things?

The team has done a lot of good. Specifically with respect to Kylington they made a great decision to trade for the pick needed to draft him. They helped him develop wonderfully in the AHL - a couple years on AHL middle pairs picking up reps, with tons of time in the video roomreviewing every mistake I'm sure. Got him sent to the WJC where he was functionally their all-situations #1D (though a young Dahlin's savvy also impressed).

Cail MacLean came in and allowed Kylington an opportunity to be his powerplay, PK all situations guy in the AHL. Earned him a quick callup where he impressed for months before hitting a rookie wall.

The Flames developed Kylington right for three and a half years.

And then as soon as he hit the inevitable bumps in the road that come with transitioning to the NHL, they defaulted to a team fearful of his inexperience - even though he was very much a part of the hot start pre-All Star Break in 2018-19. Their response to his rookie wall was Oscar Fantenberg.

And since then, they treated him like an afterthought, eith no real flexibility for error or any show of belief in his potential.

Is it really so problematic to be questioning that specific aspect of how the Flames have handled some HIGH end talent?

It's not just Kylington, it's Bennett too.

It's watching your favourite team shoot itself in the foot playing Nick Shore or Nikita Nesterov types while pushing Bennett to a trade request and exposing Kylington on waivers. They were lucky Kylington cleared - I'm surr teams had interest but didn't have time to free up a roster spot for him, but no matter how calculated the risk was - it was an unnecessary one (see also Byron).

Why is the team immune to criticism for this key aspect of player development?

Darryl Sutter's utilization of not only Kylington, but also Dillon Dube this year is in stark contrast to how the organization has been run since Fall 2016. It's beyond fair to praise him for it, but that requires highlighting the contrast with how Gulutzan, Peters, Ward, Sutter and Treliving operated from Fall 2016 to Spring 2021.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because this is a hyperbolic way to frame things?

The team has done a lot of good. Specifically with respect to Kylington they made a great decision to trade for the pick needed to draft him. They helped him develop wonderfully in the AHL - a couple years on AHL middle pairs picking up reps, with tons of time in the video roomreviewing every mistake I'm sure. Got him sent to the WJC where he was functionally their all-situations #1D (though a young Dahlin's savvy also impressed).

Cail MacLean came in and allowed Kylington an opportunity to be his powerplay, PK all situations guy in the AHL. Earned him a quick callup where he impressed for months before hitting a rookie wall.

The Flames developed Kylington right for three and a half years.

And then as soon as he hit the inevitable bumps in the road that come with transitioning to the NHL, they defaulted to a team fearful of his inexperience - even though he was very much a part of the hot start pre-All Star Break in 2018-19. Their response to his rookie wall was Oscar Fantenberg.

And since then, they treated him like an afterthought, eith no real flexibility for error or any show of belief in his potential.

Is it really so problematic to be questioning that specific aspect of how the Flames have handled some HIGH end talent?

It's not just Kylington, it's Bennett too.

It's watching your favourite team shoot itself in the foot playing Nick Shore or Nikita Nesterov types while pushing Bennett to a trade request and exposing Kylington on waivers. They were lucky Kylington cleared - I'm surr teams had interest but didn't have time to free up a roster spot for him, but no matter how calculated the risk was - it was an unnecessary one (see also Byron).

Why is the team immune to criticism for this key aspect of player development?

Darryl Sutter's utilization of not only Kylington, but also Dillon Dube this year is in stark contrast to how the organization has been run since Fall 2016. It's beyond fair to praise him for it, but that requires highlighting the contrast with how Gulutzan, Peters, Ward, Sutter and Treliving operated from Fall 2016 to Spring 2021.

I’ve highlighted some more hyperbole for you.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by edslunch

OMG CalgaryPuck. There are enough examples where management screwed up with lasting consequences. This doesn’t appear to be one of them. Can we just enjoy this player?

No. We are smarter than the pro scouting staff and GMs of 31 other organizations.

[Bingo]

I'm not suggesting the team is immune to criticism.

But you're making observations that you walk out as basically fact, but many of them just aren't what I'm seeing.

Oliver Kylington was a paralyzed player in the last half of the 19-20 season. He stopped moving his feet and looked a bit over his head. Then the 20-21 season was just odd ... all Canadian division, short season, taxi squads ... I just think he got lost in the shuffle.

Sutter tried him and he did some good things, but I also think he went outside the lines on some core things that drove Sutter nuts so he didn't get played.

Clearly those things were explained, he's taken steps, and with some actual success he now has more room to make a mistake or two.

It's pretty much the evolution of most young players.

I give him all the credit. He's improved.

But like Bennett I don't just blame the team when a young player doesn't do much with opportunity.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not suggesting the team is immune to criticism.

But you're making observations that you walk out as basically fact, but many of them just aren't what I'm seeing.

Oliver Kylington was a paralyzed player in the last half of the 19-20 season. He stopped moving his feet and looked a bit over his head. Then the 20-21 season was just odd ... all Canadian division, short season, taxi squads ... I just think he got lost in the shuffle.

Sutter tried him and he did some good things, but I also think he went outside the lines on some core things that drove Sutter nuts so he didn't get played.

Clearly those things were explained, he's taken steps, and with some actual success he now has more room to make a mistake or two.

It's pretty much the evolution of most young players.

I give him all the credit. He's improved.

But like Bennett I don't just blame the team when a young player doesn't do much with opportunity.

Sutter has said exactly this.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I’ve highlighted some more hyperbole for you.

- Acquired Fantenberg to directly replace him, probably "because Corsi" (even though a lot of that had to do with the Kylington-Andersson rookie pair's COMBINED struggles - Kylington's metrics were stellar when he had a steady Prout next to him, even though Prout isn't a top 6 D on most teams)
- Acquired Gustafsson to directly replace him, probably "because points" (even though Gusaffsson was visibly worse in his own zone than Kylington's been since he was 19, and a lot of Gustaffsson's points came on the powerplay, where Kylington was never even given an opportunity)
- Aggressively shopped in Mark Stone deal while Valimaki was treated as untouchable
- Put on waivers after some visa issues probably outside of his control
- played eight of fifty six games in a year the team sorely needed a mobile puckmoving defenseman
- Exposed to expansion draft, with some rumours that he was even included with some adds to hang onto Giordano

Yeah, hyperbole