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Old 05-01-2009, 10:38 AM   #101
MelBridgeman
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i think we need to take the mel bridgeman approach here... we need to ignore useless stats like save % or gaa when they don't agree with what we want to say and instead cite some personal experience that makes our opinion more important. i played floor hockey in gym class when i was a kid. i think that makes me an expert on this subject! i will therefore be not listening to any opinions that disagree with mine!
lol..Way to take it and run with it...


back to the topic...ignoring a goalie may be a myth, but you are ignoring the biggest reason why kipper's stats aren't has good as they were.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:44 AM   #102
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lol..Way to take it and run with it...
i thought it was a pretty good impersonation myself!!!

seriously though, i find it funny that in threads where people think kipper is regressing as a goalie many people (not just you mel) start talking about how stats like save percentage and goals against are an awful way to judge a goalie and that kipper is still really 1337! (1337 = elite for you non nerds out there!)

then we have this thread where those very same statistics are being used to draw conclusions, but since they support the failed mantra of playing kipper in just about every game, the kipper supporters don't have any problems with the statistics all of a sudden.

shouldn't there be consistency? either we accept the stats for what they are or we discount them as useless. we shouldn't pick and choose when they are important...
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:55 AM   #103
MelBridgeman
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i thought it was a pretty good impersonation myself!!!

seriously though, i find it funny that in threads where people think kipper is regressing as a goalie many people (not just you mel) start talking about how stats like save percentage and goals against are an awful way to judge a goalie and that kipper is still really 1337! (1337 = elite for you non nerds out there!)

then we have this thread where those very same statistics are being used to draw conclusions, but since they support the failed mantra of playing kipper in just about every game, the kipper supporters don't have any problems with the statistics all of a sudden.

shouldn't there be consistency? either we accept the stats for what they are or we discount them as useless. we shouldn't pick and choose when they are important...
Well I don't think they are useless, and I don't doubt that after 5 years and 70+ games that you won't see regression in a 32 year old goaltender playing in the Western Conference. His first 2 years he put up great numbers that not alot of goalies ever get too, just like Iggy doesn't score 50 goals every year..So I don't think you can hold him to that level. But if you stick Kipper behind a system like say the canucks, no one will be complaining about his numbers at all, because style of play and how a team plays defense do effect those numbers more than anything....

Maybe we can talk about what the hell happened to a guy like Toskala? Does he suck now? He goes from San Jose a team with a strong commitment to defense to the Leafs and his numbers tank? He still is a great goalie, can he not handle being a number 1? Or does the style of team in front of him expose his weaknesses.

The point is...rarely this year did the team play well and lose a game thanks to Kipper...but what is a apparent is when Kipper had his best stretch of hockey, so did the team, but not only did Kipper have his best stretch but the team in front of him was committed to a system and defensive structure.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:15 AM   #104
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Maybe we can talk about what the hell happened to a guy like Toskala? Does he suck now? He goes from San Jose a team with a strong commitment to defense to the Leafs and his numbers tank? He still is a great goalie, can he not handle being a number 1? Or does the style of team in front of him expose his weaknesses.
Last two years in San Jose: .901 (37GP) and .908 (38GP) save percentage
First year in Toronto: .904 (66GP) save percentage

His numbers did tank this season, but he was bothered by injuries through-out and was shut-down at the trade deadline to rehab those injuries.

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The point is...rarely this year did the team play well and lose a game thanks to Kipper.
That's not how a guy expected to be an elite goalie and is compensated as such should be judged.
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