Gilbertson: Neal proud of team success, knows he has more to offer

[ComixZone]

Neal has been playing pretty solid hockey since the Christmas break. He's back to being close to contributing at the rate we expected him to be (5 points in his last 11 games - .455 ppg).

His last two seasons were 41 points in 70 games (.585 ppg) and 44 points in 71 games (.619 ppg).

One thing we have to keep in mind is that Neal was generally a PP1 player and played higher up the line-up. I think we'll get a motivated player that delivers at a .5 ppg rate for the remainder of the season - and I'd think that would be more than acceptable given his spot on the depth chart.

It's cool to have depth. I love Neal. Every time he talks, he just sounds like a veteran that knows how to win - and we're winning.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Neal has been playing pretty solid hockey since the Christmas break. He's back to being close to contributing at the rate we expected him to be (5 points in his last 11 games - .455 ppg).

His last two seasons were 41 points in 70 games (.585 ppg) and 44 points in 71 games (.619 ppg).

One thing we have to keep in mind is that Neal was generally a PP1 player and played higher up the line-up. I think we'll get a motivated player that delivers at a .5 ppg rate for the remainder of the season - and I'd think that would be more than acceptable given his spot on the depth chart.

It's cool to have depth. I love Neal. Every time he talks, he just sounds like a veteran that knows how to win - and we're winning.

Not playing with Jankowski and Bennett he won't, nor should that be expected with that duo.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not playing with Jankowski and Bennett he won't, nor should that be expected with that duo.

Bennett + Neal has actually been their best combination for him. Neal has been much more productive in his time with Bennett than he has away from Bennett.

Neal with Bennett:

TOI: 194 Minutes
CF %: 51.7%
HDCF%: 58.57%
On Ice GF/60: 2.16

Neal without Bennett:

TOI: 431 Minutes
CF%: 48.3%
HDCF%: 43.6%
On Ice GF/60: 1.25

Agree that it's still unlikely that he gets up to 0.5PPG playing on the third line and second PP with those guys but I feel like there is some upside there for sure.

I personally don't think Neal had a great offseason of training after having two long playoff runs back to back years. IMO he looked slow and out of shape to start the season and he has started look quicker and is moving a lot better on the ice over the last month and a half.

Also I heard from somebody that has had conversations with Neal that he's had a hard time adjusting to playing in Calgary. His first time playing in a Canadian market and took some time getting used to everyone knowing who you are, coming up to talk to you, and the pressure that comes with playing here hurt his confidence after the slow start.

Intrigued to see how he looks after a week off to recharge and gets a bit of a fresh start in the second half of the year.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

It’s been talked about on things like spitting chiclets etc. But he’s an ultimate team guy and apparently is a huge contributor to the “glue” of this team. I could care less if Neal scores a point again for this team if he is a part of the engine driving the rest of the success for this team. Sometimes players find other ways to be valuable then scoring. And if he’s that solid of a locker room guy that he’s helping this surge in only that way then he’s worth every penny.

Maybe instead of paying Neal a huge sum of money to be a locker room guy, we could have just paid Ryan Whitney and Paul Bissonnette $50,000 each to hand around the team and provide those same services?

[Otto-matic]

I think if Neal was on the top line and Lindholm was playing on the 3rd with Janko/Benny. We'd all probably be scratching our heads with the Ferland trade.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Maybe instead of paying Neal a huge sum of money to be a locker room guy, we could have just paid Ryan Whitney and Paul Bissonnette $50,000 each to hand around the team and provide those same services?

Clearly they brought him in to score, and clearly he's not doing that. But that's in the past. So why complain about him doing positive things?

[Temporary_User]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

I think if Neal was on the top line and Lindholm was playing on the 3rd with Janko/Benny. We'd all probably be scratching our heads with the Ferland trade.

Because the other guys are producing (https://www.nhl.com/flames/stats) and Neal came in as a high-paid UFA acquisition. He is our 4th highest player. (https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/calgary-flames/cap/)


Edit: looks like I hit reply after the post was edited.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

I think if Neal was on the top line and Lindholm was playing on the 3rd with Janko/Benny. We'd all probably be scratching our heads with the Ferland trade.

Why do people continue to post this?... Neal plays on the top line every game after a PK...and has done sweet ###### all with that opportunity.

Reading this thread is so painful...folks trying to justify a 5.75 million, 12 point player (on pace for 20 points) with the worst +/- on the team.

Imagine being Lindholm and scoring like crazy, killing penalties and winning face-offs and having to look over at a player who makes 900k more and contributes a fraction of what Lindholm does on the ice.

That being said, there is progress...it appears he now understands how icing works.

[GioforPM]

[QUOTE=CanadaMatt;6971543]Why do people continue to post this?... Neal plays on the top line every game after a PK...and has done sweet ###### all with that opportunity.

Reading this thread is so painful...folks trying to justify a 5.75 million, 12 point player (on pace for 20 points) with the worst +/- on the team.

Imagine being Lindholm and scoring like crazy, killing penalties and winning face-offs and having to look over at a player who makes 900k more and contributes a fraction of what Lindholm does on the ice.

That being said, there is progress...it appears he now understands how icing works.[/QUO

A couple short shifts per game (with probably zero practice time on the line) isn't the opportunity you think it is.

[CanadaMatt]

I’ll add that one to the ever expanding James Neal Excuse-for-not-contributing Rolodex (trademark pending), right after the excuse about “how he was brought in for playoffs not regular season” and right before the excuse about “how his stick was discontinued”...

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Neal with Bennett:

TOI: 194 Minutes
CF %: 51.7%
HDCF%: 58.57%
On Ice GF/60: 2.16

Neal without Bennett:

TOI: 431 Minutes
CF%: 48.3%
HDCF%: 43.6%
On Ice GF/60: 1.25.

Since Dube really struggled down the middle as a rookie, here are the underlying numbers with Dube removed:

Neal W/ Bennett WO Dube
179:16
53.44% CF
56.61% SCF

Neal WO Bennett WO Dube
394:04
49.12% CF
44.84% SCF

Neal W Dube
51:51
41.97% CF
40.48% SCF

On paper? Bennett/Neal are absolutely two thirds of a highly effective line, if we are expecting Neal's SH% to normalize.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Clearly they brought him in to score, and clearly he's not doing that. But that's in the past. So why complain about him doing positive things?

I'm happy he's a great guy in the locker room - but I definitely don't agree that makes him worth every penny of his contract, like the post I replied to was saying.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Maybe instead of paying Neal a huge sum of money to be a locker room guy, we could have just paid Ryan Whitney and Paul Bissonnette $50,000 each to hand around the team and provide those same services?

These guys don't need someone paid to hand around the team. Every single one of them could walk in any bar in town and get their choice action.

[CN10]

Bringing in him and Lindholm this off season has solidified Calgary's right wing position and solved a lot of the problems we had last season scoring (Elias obviously being the main reason). It didn't happen in a conventional way as I'm sure most thought Neal would be near the 20/20 mark, and Elias would trend to 20/35 for year, but I think if you said at the beginning of the year that our two new RW's would be on pace for ~110 combined points on the season and the team would be second in league scoring at the all star break most people would take it.

Neal's play of late has been better and I'm seeing a way better team attitude and desire to break out of the slump than I ever did with Brouwer. I'm hoping that Neal earns some of his contract this year with a strong stretch drive to close the year and a half dozen big goals in the playoffs. However, the Neal case does serve as yet another warning about the high risk involved in UFA contracts.

[burnitdown]

[QUOTE=GioforPM;6971556]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Why do people continue to post this?... Neal plays on the top line every game after a PK...and has done sweet ###### all with that opportunity.

Reading this thread is so painful...folks trying to justify a 5.75 million, 12 point player (on pace for 20 points) with the worst +/- on the team.

Imagine being Lindholm and scoring like crazy, killing penalties and winning face-offs and having to look over at a player who makes 900k more and contributes a fraction of what Lindholm does on the ice.

That being said, there is progress...it appears he now understands how icing works.[/QUO

A couple short shifts per game (with probably zero practice time on the line) isn't the opportunity you think it is.

He's played almost 20% of his icetime this season on a line with either Backlund/Tkachuk or Gaudreau/Monahan, so it's not like he hasn't received an opportunity:

Top 3 Line Combinations (as per Frozen Tools)
18.1% BENNETT,SAM - JANKOWSKI,MARK - NEAL,JAMES
11.6% BACKLUND,MIKAEL - NEAL,JAMES - TKACHUK,MATTHEW
8.9% GAUDREAU,JOHNNY - MONAHAN,SEAN - NEAL,JAMES

[Bingo]

when you see a guy's shooting percentage go from 11-12% to 4% in a year you know it will correct back to a better number ... I'm not all that worried about it.

Even at 9% this year he's have 10 right now and looking for a better second half to get to 20

[GioforPM]

[QUOTE=burnitdown;6971605]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's played almost 20% of his icetime this season on a line with either Backlund/Tkachuk or Gaudreau/Monahan, so it's not like he hasn't received an opportunity:

Top 3 Line Combinations (as per Frozen Tools)
18.1% BENNETT,SAM - JANKOWSKI,MARK - NEAL,JAMES
11.6% BACKLUND,MIKAEL - NEAL,JAMES - TKACHUK,MATTHEW
8.9% GAUDREAU,JOHNNY - MONAHAN,SEAN - NEAL,JAMES

You've partly supported what I've said. 11.6 and 8.9% (again likely with very limited practice time) is nowhere near enough time to develop chemistry in most cases. In fact, 18% isn't a whole lot of time. Neal hasn't been good, obviously, but his lack of consistent linemates has not helped the situation (this isn't a gripe about Peters - just a statement about Neal's circumstances).

[Bingo]

[QUOTE=GioforPM;6971625]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

You've partly supported what I've said. 11.6 and 8.9% (again likely with very limited practice time) is nowhere near enough time to develop chemistry in most cases. In fact, 18% isn't a whole lot of time. Neal hasn't been good, obviously, but his lack of consistent linemates has not helped the situation (this isn't a gripe about Peters - just a statement about Neal's circumstances).

I think you're over stating things a bit though. NHL ice time stats take into account every second which includes mix ups, line changes etc and therefore nobody is anywhere close to the majority that you'd think.

Matthew Tkachuk this year ...

24.6% Backlund/Frolik
24.0% Backlund/Bennett
11.2% Neal/Backlund

So sure not as much as Neal's top three, but not hugely different either.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Bingo

when you see a guy's shooting percentage go from 11-12% to 4% in a year you know it will correct back to a better number ... I'm not all that worried about it.

Even at 9% this year he's have 10 right now and looking for a better second half to get to 20

Is 20 goals enough for such an expensive player who contributes nothing else on the ice (pk, fights, face-offs, speed, defense)

I’m not sure your shooting percentage argument is rock solid though. For that to be the case, you have to assume the shots are of similar quality and not forced shots from bad angles or poor positions that are being made due to the pressure that the player is feeling from not scoring.

[Mattman]

James Neal is our Marian Hossa.

He's a leader for this young team and that will be extremely valuable come playoff time with some of these guys still being quite inexperienced in the post-season.

Think about it like this, Neal is the "depth player" we would be trying to trade for at the deadline, but we got him at the start of the season and he has already formed relationships and knows the system this team plays.