How the Flames found Big Save Dave

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Jesus. Look at the scorched earth stockpile of guys Sigalet has failed to get anything out of.

Kudos to Sigalet for recognizing something he likes about Rittich. Can’t take that away from him.

Let me ask you, how good of a goalie coach is David Marcoux? And why?

I have no opinion on Marcoux one way or another.

I was making a joke, but since it rustles your jimmies:

I’m sure there are many goaltender coaches who have a “scorched earth stockpile of guys” that they didn’t get anything of. Most goaltenders never stick in the show. All goaltenders eventually lose their ability to do so. There are a handful of coaches who have everything they touch turn to gold (Burke, for one), there are another handful who don’t have that record but have staying power (Sigalet seems to be in that mild), and there are even more that just bounce around or never really stick.

I trust that Treliving, having worked with Burke, knows what makes a successful GC. I also trust that Sigalet being able to identify a goaltender who “has it” and then spend two years helping that goaltender become one of the few who turns it into NHL success is why you pay them.

Not every river has gold in it. Being able to identify the ones that do and knowing how to bring it to the surface, even if it doesn’t always pan out, is how you get rich.

Rittich is a great example of scouting and development success.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

[Treliving] is playing the long game. Fans live in the moment, but he can not afford to.

Most fans will be with their team longer than any GM.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SebC

Most fans will be with their team longer than any GM.

So? What is your point?


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[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Jesus. Look at the scorched earth stockpile of guys Sigalet has failed to get anything out of.

Kudos to Sigalet for recognizing something he likes about Rittich. Can’t take that away from him.

Let me ask you, how good of a goalie coach is David Marcoux? And why?

I had a buddy at a Flames event where a team official / player was at every table three years ago.

Sigalet was talking about Rittich big time ... and this was well before last season and his taking the backup job away from Gillies. At the time I was disappointed that Gillies was faltering in comparison.

He's been on Sigalet's radar for three plus years as the guy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I had a buddy at a Flames event where a team official / player was at every table three years ago.



Sigalet was talking about Rittich big time ... and this was well before last season and his taking the backup job away from Gillies. At the time I was disappointed that Gillies was faltering in comparison.



He's been on Sigalet's radar for three plus years as the guy.

I find it ironic that any contribution Sigalet might share in Rittich’s success is frequently dismissed when Rittich has spent more time with Sigalet than probably any other Flames goaltender.


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[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by SebC

Most fans will be with their team longer than any GM.

So what are you implying?

Should the fans be in charge of the team?

[troutman]

Mlada Boleslav

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I had a buddy at a Flames event where a team official / player was at every table three years ago.

Sigalet was talking about Rittich big time ... and this was well before last season and his taking the backup job away from Gillies. At the time I was disappointed that Gillies was faltering in comparison.

He's been on Sigalet's radar for three plus years as the guy.

I believe I may have been at that event. Did it involve cards?

I am very high on Rittich based on his fundamentals. Have been since I first saw him, including last year when people said he faltered down the stretch. I guess I forgive goalies for sv% nosediving with increased 2 on 0’s.

I still put goalie coaches like Sigalet in the ‘how good is this guy and how can you tell?’ bucket.

Until Rittich, nobody significantly improved under him. Some NHL goalies have fallen to pieces under him. (Hiller and Smith both have gone from dependable stoppers to sieves, who seem to really have a lot of issues with basic stoppable shots and the mental side of the game, and the same with Brian Elliott, not in terms of overall sv%, but in terms of type and timing of back breaking weak goals).

Marcoux was great with Kiprusoff, which someone pointed out. Remember Eddie Lack in Carolina? They talked about someone trying to change his game, and Peters called him out and subsequently learned a lesson about how well that worked. Guess who his goalie coach was? Yep. David Marcoux.

Again, kudos to the scouts and Sigalet for recognizing that Rittich was worth looking at. You can’t take that away from them.

Just because a guy can recognize a good player, does it mean he can influence him to be better?

9 of 10 goalies don’t improve and that’s on them because there is something wrong with them? But the one guy they found by turning over a stone far, far away is mainly due to development under him? Does that really pass the smell test?

How good is a coach that data supports improving the performance of approximately 10% of his students? I don’t know.

Like I said in another post, posters that mock anybody who is reasonably questioning Sigalet are like those who were satisfied when OJ put on the gloves and they didn’t fit.

[Itse]

It'd be nice if there could just be a thread about how great Rittich is, without them needing to turn into discussions about how much someone else sucks or doesn't suck.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

...I still put goalie coaches like Sigalet in the ‘how good is this guy and how can you tell?’ bucket.

...9 of 10 goalies don’t improve and that’s on them because there is something wrong with them? But the one guy they found by turning over a stone far, far away is mainly due to development under him? Does that really pass the smell test?

Who has said that David Rittich's success is "far, far away mainly due to development under [Jordan Sigalet]"?

I see a few posters responding with sarcasm to the notion that Sigalet is an awful goaltending coach, but interpret this mostly as mockery of the rather absurd premise that all of us internet schmucks has even the foggiest idea of what goaltending coaches do, and how they are evaluated by NHL professionals.

It strikes me as disingenuous that you would call out posters for attributing influence by the goalie coach to David Rittich's success while you and a few others simultaneously are perfectly content to saddle him with the responsibility for previous failures. So, I guess I would turn the question back on you:

Just because a guy can recognize a good player, does it mean he can influence him to be better?

Not necessarily, but is your contention here that this is the sum total of Sigalet's contribution to Rittich's success this year? On what are you basing your opinion of Sigalet's work specifically with Rittich?

How good is a coach that data supports improving the performance of approximately 10% of his students? I don’t know.

Neither do I. Why are you drawing conclusions on the basis of things you do not know?

Like I said in another post, posters that mock anybody who is reasonably questioning Sigalet are like those who were satisfied when OJ put on the gloves and they didn’t fit.

Wow. This is an impressively ham-fisted analogy. "If the analogy does not fit, you must acquit [using it]."

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Itse

It'd be nice if there could just be a thread about how great Rittich is, without them needing to turn into discussions about how much someone else sucks or doesn't suck.

Here:
Dave “Frickin’ Big Save Dave” Rittich

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=171916

Unfortunately, it was uncontroversial. Basically everyone agreed, so there was little left to discuss.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Who has said that David Rittich's success is "far, far away mainly due to development under [Jordan Sigalet]"?

...

Wow. This is an impressively ham-fisted analogy. "If the analogy does not fit, you must acquit [using it]."

Check your grammar, sir. Far, far away agreed with the rock location.

Good job in the ongoing attempt to normalize ‘ internet schmucks’ :-)

Thank you. You can’t try on a glove while making a fist.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Until Rittich, nobody significantly improved under him. Some NHL goalies have fallen to pieces under him. (Hiller and Smith both have gone from dependable stoppers to sieves, who seem to really have a lot of issues with basic stoppable shots and the mental side of the game, and the same with Brian Elliott, not in terms of overall sv%, but in terms of type and timing of back breaking weak goals).

But let's unpack that a little more
Hiller was reaching an age where it wouldn't be surprising that his game starts to suffer. You can't ignore the age factor with both Smith and Hiller. They aren't taking steps back as young goalies. It's happening in their final years.
Elliott's issue was always less about topline numbers and more about his consistency and ability to deliver when it matters most.
Nobody significantly improved but how many goalies at those ages do?

[AC]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I had a buddy at a Flames event where a team official / player was at every table three years ago.

Sigalet was talking about Rittich big time ... and this was well before last season and his taking the backup job away from Gillies. At the time I was disappointed that Gillies was faltering in comparison.

He's been on Sigalet's radar for three plus years as the guy.

I recall last year when Rittich was looking great in the backup role the Fan960 relayed a prior exchange with Brad Pascall.

At some point earlier, I believe maybe in training camp last year or even before, they asked Pascall which of Parsons or Gillies he thought would be the eventual Flames #1. Pascall replied with Rittich.

Safe to say the management has been quite high on him for a while.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Good job in the ongoing attempt to normalize ‘ internet schmucks’ :-)

LOL. That's awesome. It doesn't really fit with his normal diction does it.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by SebC

Most fans will be with their team longer than any GM.

That the "GMs think long term, fans think short term" line of thinking is erroneous.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by SebC

That the "GMs think long term, fans think short term" line of thinking is erroneous.

But there are Hell's own herd of fans who do think short term. How many times, in these last few weeks, have we seen CPers suggest that the Flames trade away their 1st-round pick for a rental because they need to go for it this year? At least one said they should trade it for Jimmy freaking Howard. Trading a first for a 34-year-old goalie on an expiring contract is not exactly a specimen of long-term thinking.