Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What in this season says that the team will go on a losing streak? Like CPF just said, what GG has undeniably done is to avoid extended losing streaks, especially pointless ones. The ones in mid-November through December were the longest and even there the Flames weren't playing that badly - they were losing close ones (some in which they were IMO the better team, like the Minnie game, the SJ game and the Leafs game), and they managed a point in a few of those losses as well. They were generally outshooting the opponents in that period as well, which is not the be all and end all, but, for example, in the TO loss shots were 48-29.

Like I said. There’s a first time for everything.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Like I said. There’s a first time for everything.

Yup, first six game winning streak of the year has yet to happen as well.

[Red]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are so wrong. It is the same system that Babcock used to win the Red Wings multiple SC wins and Canada Gold medals. Yup, just a terrible system right there.

That's irrelevant. We don't have the horses to pull it off. A good coach adjusts to personnel he has at his disposal.

I will give GG credit for benching Bartkowski for good. But take the credit away for having him in the lineup to start with.

Credit for taking Brouwer off the PP. Only took 40 games, ugh.

Gio on first PP. Finally. Only took 40 games?

Hathaway, Janko, Mangipane etc. Should have been given a better look to start the season. Only Janko had a great camp, but it' s not like the vets played well either.

This team is playing better because of those roster changes. So we have to credit GG for making them, but we also have to call him out for not seeing it earlier. Most outsiders saw it.

Win a playoff round. That's my bar for GG. Winning streaks don't change much when the body of work is years of suck and inconsistency. But I am very happy to see the team keep winning, GG or not.

[habernac]

So much pessimism here. I WISH my favourite team had this roster. Watch the horse#### Canadiens and see how lucky you really are.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by habernac

So much pessimism here. I WISH my favourite team had this roster. Watch the horse#### Canadiens and see how lucky you really are.

Think you missed the point.

Most Flames fans are happy with the roster and that is why they expected more than being a playoff hopeful. Many thought the coach was to blame for not getting the most out of a talented roster full of players in their primes.

They had to play out of their minds for the past 5 games just to come close again.

My vision and hope for this team was to sit comfortably in the top 3 of the division and work on improvements game in and game out to be absolutely ready for playoffs. Fighting for their playoff lives was disheartening while the coach moped on the bench.

Is it any coincidence that when the coach showed some spark on the bench and yelled at the refs the team showed some jump and beat the Ducks at their own game?

[Red]

Originally Posted by habernac

So much pessimism here. I WISH my favourite team had this roster. Watch the horse#### Canadiens and see how lucky you really are.

Yes, rough year for the Habs, but you guys watched7 rounds of playoffs in the last 5 years.

The Flames have 2.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Red

That's irrelevant. We don't have the horses to pull it off. A good coach adjusts to personnel he has at his disposal.

I will give GG credit for benching Bartkowski for good. But take the credit away for having him in the lineup to start with.

Credit for taking Brouwer off the PP. Only took 40 games, ugh.

Gio on first PP. Finally. Only took 40 games?

Hathaway, Janko, Mangipane etc. Should have been given a better look to start the season. Only Janko had a great camp, but it' s not like the vets played well either.

This team is playing better because of those roster changes. So we have to credit GG for making them, but we also have to call him out for not seeing it earlier. Most outsiders saw it.

Win a playoff round. That's my bar for GG. Winning streaks don't change much when the body of work is years of suck and inconsistency. But I am very happy to see the team keep winning, GG or not.

I think that coaches are more reluctant to make change than a fan because they deal with the HR consequences of it and need to present a measured controlled image. If they line juggled and changes systems constantly or didn't give players opportunities they would lose credibility.

PP I agree with you they waited to long to make changes

How can you argue that any player other than Janko deserved on the team given the camp they had. That is the Oilers model of rushing young players. If a young player doesn't force his way on the roster in camp. Given the camp performance it was more likely that a Brower would rebound rather than Hathaway/Magiapane would perform. And given the price of that asset you also have huge value in exploring the Brower upside trying to get him back to neutral value.

Jankowski- was sent down because org needed to complete evaluation of Bennet at Center. Once that was done and Jankowski dominated the AHL he was brought up. I think this was the right way to maximize your assets. Yes it looks like they should have had Jankowski in that spot all along but then you wouldn't know the answer to the Bennet at centre question

I'm not saying GG is a great or even could coach but I don't think roster criticisms is a reason to criticize him.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by habernac

So much pessimism here. I WISH my favourite team had this roster. Watch the horse#### Canadiens and see how lucky you really are.

The Flames exceed at mediocrity, always fighting for lower playoff seeds and quick exits if they do make it. The Canadiens seem to be much more bang or bust, which I think is more entertaining. 1 playoff series win over the last 12 years isn't very exciting

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Think you missed the point.

Most Flames fans are happy with the roster and that is why they expected more than being a playoff hopeful. Many thought the coach was to blame for not getting the most out of a talented roster full of players in their primes.

They had to play out of their minds for the past 5 games just to come close again.

My vision and hope for this team was to sit comfortably in the top 3 of the division and work on improvements game in and game out to be absolutely ready for playoffs. Fighting for their playoff lives was disheartening while the coach moped on the bench.

Is it any coincidence that when the coach showed some spark on the bench and yelled at the refs the team showed some jump and beat the Ducks at their own game?

They played good games, not "out of their minds". They've played better in some of their losses. I'd say the first period against the Ducks may have been one of the best all season, but aside from that, they played well, but not unusually so.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think that coaches are more reluctant to make change than a fan because they deal with the HR consequences of it and need to present a measured controlled image. If they line juggled and changes systems constantly or didn't give players opportunities they would lose credibility.

PP I agree with you they waited to long to make changes

How can you argue that any player other than Janko deserved on the team given the camp they had. That is the Oilers model of rushing young players. If a young player doesn't force his way on the roster in camp. Given the camp performance it was more likely that a Brower would rebound rather than Hathaway/Magiapane would perform. And given the price of that asset you also have huge value in exploring the Brower upside trying to get him back to neutral value.

Jankowski- was sent down because org needed to complete evaluation of Bennet at Center. Once that was done and Jankowski dominated the AHL he was brought up. I think this was the right way to maximize your assets. Yes it looks like they should have had Jankowski in that spot all along but then you wouldn't know the answer to the Bennet at centre question

I'm not saying GG is a great or even could coach but I don't think roster criticisms is a reason to criticize him.

Right, so all of last season wasn't enough, we needed another 20 games this season?
Better players were sent down to Stockton because of many reasons, but evaluating Bennett wasn't one of them.

[Robbob]

A few things that keep being brought up, but I think people aren't looking at the big picture or all the moving parts or looking to hard for faults.

Bart is just fine as a 7th Dman. He gets paid peanuts and allows Andersson and the other young Dmen to continue to develop playing a ton of minutes.

The roster is always a evolution from day one, but it also needs to be managed in terms of roster limits and cap. I think a lot of people just needed to take a breath as Treliving eventually got the pieces up here.

The PP is struggling, but I think that will come and go depending on how the first line is playing. They struggled mightily in Dec and that is when it did a swan dive in terms of %. Also Gio is only 14 mins behind Brodie of TOI on the PP for the season so I don't know where that complaint for him not being used came from.

I also don't think Stajan and Brouwer get enough credit for the PK work since both the Detroit game and Frolik injury.

Taking the entire season as a whole I don't really have a problem with how things are going. They have played 43 games and I think you can see the evolution of the team in a positive way. From the emergence of the 3rd line, the new blood on the 4th line, the team defense improvements, emergence of Ferland, etc. Overall they are where I expected them to be, solidly in the mix for a playoff spot.

Funny thing is Vegas being shot out of a canon is why this race is that much more interesting. In some alternate universe Without them around Flames would be sitting 2nd in the division at or near the half way point of the season. In reality with Vegas being the top, I am content sitting 3rd in the division after 43 games. Still lots of hockey to be played.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Red

Right, so all of last season wasn't enough, we needed another 20 games this season?
Better players were sent down to Stockton because of many reasons, but evaluating Bennett wasn't one of them.

For a 21 year old coming into a new season after a strong playoffs and positive training camp, it was definitely the right call to see if he had improved at centre. Most people here assumed he was poised for a big breakout.

And I think people need to drop the whole "Jankowski needed to be here from day 1!" thing... relax, he was out, what 8 games before being called up? It was 100% reasonable for the org. to see what they had in their roster first before making a call-up.

I think the main criticisms of GG that are valid are: questionable line deployment and the PP... but we're winning now, 3rd in the division... time will tell, but I think it has more to do with the growing pains of a young team than it has to do with the coach. It takes maturity and experience to play consistently and unselfishly game in and game out.

[Vinny01]

I believe if the Flames were considering a change it would happen over the break. This 5 game streak has certainly saved GG if they were going to make a change.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I believe if the Flames were considering a change it would happen over the break. This 5 game streak has certainly saved GG if they were going to make a change.

I seriously doubt Treliving has ever considered making a change this season at any point

[Enoch Root]

A few wins doesn't change whether he is the right coach, any more than a few losses would. But IMO, we are starting to see some of the things that many of us have been most critical about - roster management, in-game adjustments, and most of all, team identity.

More than anything else, the team has been emotional, resilient, and spirited during this streak. And that is what they have lacked most and been very inconsistent with, over the last two years.

Getting the team playing well, and playing with passion and confidence, is part of the coach's job (yes, it is also on the players as well). He has gotten them to the level they need to be at. However, we have seen that for stretches in the past as well. The mark of a good coach, is the ability to get the team to keep it going, to be more consistent.

Let's see if he can do that. Let's see if this is just another short streak to be followed by them sliding back into all their issues, or if they have actually turned a corner.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I believe if the Flames were considering a change it would happen over the break. This 5 game streak has certainly saved GG if they were going to make a change.

They were never considering an in-season coaching change. That is pure fantasy

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

They were never considering an in-season coaching change. That is pure fantasy

You don't know that. Coaches routinely get fired in the first half of the season. This is the first season it hasn't happened in years.

I bet all options were on the table when the Flames were floundering, including sacking the coach.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A few wins doesn't change whether he is the right coach, any more than a few losses would. But IMO, we are starting to see some of the things that many of us have been most critical about - roster management, in-game adjustments, and most of all, team identity.

More than anything else, the team has been emotional, resilient, and spirited during this streak. And that is what they have lacked most and been very inconsistent with, over the last two years.

Getting the team playing well, and playing with passion and confidence, is part of the coach's job (yes, it is also on the players as well). He has gotten them to the level they need to be at. However, we have seen that for stretches in the past as well. The mark of a good coach, is the ability to get the team to keep it going, to be more consistent.

Let's see if he can do that. Let's see if this is just another short streak to be followed by them sliding back into all their issues, or if they have actually turned a corner.

Good post. Totally fair evaluation and criticisms. I get the sense that we won't see any more prolonged periods of uninspired play from this group. Just a feeling I have, nothing concrete.

[FBI]

I am very excited to be eating a lot of crow on this when the flames win the cup. :P

[IgiTang]

I think the problem is Cameron, not GG. But GG doesn’t have the authority to fire Cameron as that was a BT hire. It wouldn’t surprise me if GG has some frustration with Cameron and both parties know there is nothing that GG can do.
Furthermore, it wouldn’t surprise me if Cameron knows this and as the more experienced guy, feels he should be at the helm.

Totally pulling this out of my ass... but I wonder how that relationship has been over the last 1.5 years.