Issue with Visions Warranty.

[cKy]

I'm looking for some help or advice on how to handle a warranty issue with a laptop from Visions. The laptop actually belongs to my daughters daycare owner, who is non-technical.

She purchased a Lenovo IdeaPad 100 around March 2016. In November 2017 she was working on it and the screen went black. Not off, but no display but still had the back light on so you could see it was powered on.

She took it into Vision's here in Victoria (where she purchased it w/ Extended Warranty). This is her exact recount/email to Visions with times

"January 6, 2018: I called my local Visions store where I purchased the computer. I was told that they weren't sure where my computer was or if it had been fixed as the store had lost two employees

January 8, 2018: I spoke with the store manager about the fact that i had not heard a thing about my computer and that when I called on Saturday, they had no idea either. I was informed that when is Christmas, things halt. He got in-touch with the repair person and told me they would call me right back. They did not

January 9, 2018: I called back to speak with the person in service who mentioned that my computer was received on December 8 (2 1/2 weeks after dropping it off). they would follow back up with me in regards to what was going on

January 11, 2018: called visions again to follow up as no one contacted me yet again. Apparently an email had just come in and they had paid the depot for the repair. This was in Calgary, Ab and it wouldn't take long for it to come back, I was assured

January 22, 2018 (1 1/2 weeks later and I still dont have my computer that was on its was back from Calgary. When I called my visions store, I was all of a sudden informed that they just received an email today stating that there was liquid in the motherboard. this is not covered and i would have to pay $824 to fix it (more than I purchased it for)."

So, at this point I got the laptop and I opened it up. She told me that during the phone conversation they specifically said the motherboard was rusty and the water indicator strip was colored. I saw zero evidence of water damage, rust, anything. I also couldn't find this water strip - I checked the technical manual and even spoke with Lenovo support and they couldn't confirm that this strip is on this model.

So I put it back together, put in a brand new SSD I had and imaged it with Win10 - it fired up and had the entire time until Windows Updates happened. Then it Black Screened. So I reimaged and turned off Windows Updates and tried Lenovo's driver packages. Black Screened. I reimaged and left it off the internet and it didnt black screen at all. So i've basically dialed in to the fact its the VGA drivers that are killing this thing - I do some Google-Fu and find this (https://communities.intel.com/thread/122233). That is literally the exact issue i'm having.

So, I try wiping the drive and installing Windows 7. Install goes fine and 180 updates later, black screens. I boot into Safe Mode (has display) and uninstalled the newly done HD5500 drivers. Reboot and Windows runs on the Basic Display Driver.

So, here I am asking for help. How can we make it clear to Vision's that they have totally messed this situation up? My friend paid extra for a warranty they are erroneously not covering and I can prove it.

Thank you....

[Deegee]

Try calling the local news station's people helper. That usually gets a company moving.

[dino7c]

Bunch of crooks with those warranties that they pressure people into buying.

[temple5]

I hate Visions as much as I hate pialberta.org but...

Did the "daycare lady" pay the $824?

My guess would be the warranty doesnt cover driver issues much like it wouldnt cover malware issues, only hardware defects etc. If it is determined to be driver issue then its not Vision's responsibility to fix IMO. I know that sounds cruel but...

If she didnt pay the $824 then she was only out the 60ish days for the potential repair. If that is the case you arent going to get anywhere with Visions. I would use this story as simply another definitive reason to never purchase extended warranty any any store.

If she did pay the $824 then contact visions HO via email and if you dont get a satisfactory response, then go to a local consumer reports reporter. Never communicate with companies over the phone, always via Email

Before doing so I personally would check on the "liquid indicator strip" with another repair department to see if it actually exists. The problem with those strips are even a small amount of liquid spilled months before the issue could have caused that strip to show damage. Also there is no guarantee that Visions doesnt use that strip as a scam to get out of warranty claims.

[CaptainCrunch]

You have to be careful in understanding the difference between a manufacturers warranty and a extended warranty provided by the store.

Usually a manufactures warranty will only cover what's considered to be failure due to manufactures defect. So if something fails because its bad. But it won't cover anything else.

On a laptop if the main board fails or the fan fails due to bad manufacture. You're covered. But warranties on computers rarely cover software and configuration.

Extended warranties can be widely different and filled with loop holes.

But salesmen will always sell them based on, we cover beyond what the manufacturer will cover, and we'll replace something if it takes too long.

If you go on line and google Visions extended warranties there are pages of complaints.

Unless you clearly understand the coverage your going to lose every argument, because they can loop hole it as outside of coverage.

I rarely buy extended warranties because I sold a lot of them in my future shop days, but I never trusted them.

Usually if you have a problem the best thing to do is bundle up the papers and the laptop and go to the actual store and raise shyte in a nice way with the manager and threaten to go over his head, mainly because managers hate to have their name mentioned to a regional manager for the wrong reasons.

Also, I will tell you, that in my day extended warranties were extremely profitable except for appliances and big screen TV''s.

Plus it seems lunacy to charge $824 for repairs, when a decent laptop is a lot less then that.

[Hack&Lube]

Visions has been known for 30 years to not honor their in store promises or warranties on any electronics. TVs, VCRs, computers, stereos, etc. I can't think of anybody with a worse reputation that is still in business somehow.

Perhaps the best course of action would be to contact the media.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Visions has been known for 30 years to not honor their in store promises or warranties on any electronics. TVs, VCRs, computers, stereos, etc. I can't think of anybody with a worse reputation that is still in business somehow.

Perhaps the best course of action would be to contact the media.

I still remember that I almost got by butt kicked in at the Medicine Hat Visions, back in my future shop days.

When we opened the Future Shop store in Medicine Hat, we were given a bunch of flyers for our opening day special the day before. Because I was young and indoctrinated in the ways of we hate our enemies, me and another Department Manager went to the Visions and stood in the parking lot handing out flyers. The Visions manager came out and explosively told us to leave, and we did.

We'll we waited for him to leave, then we went through the door into Visions and threw out bundles of flyers into the store like a bunch of hand grenades while yelling, you're prices suck.

Then we booked it out of there.

Of course the Visions Manager phoned our store and reamed out my boss at the time, so that when we got back there we got the wink wink reprimand.

[cKy]

Originally Posted by temple5

I hate Visions as much as I hate pialberta.org but...

Did the "daycare lady" pay the $824?

My guess would be the warranty doesnt cover driver issues much like it wouldnt cover malware issues, only hardware defects etc. If it is determined to be driver issue then its not Vision's responsibility to fix IMO. I know that sounds cruel but...

If she didnt pay the $824 then she was only out the 60ish days for the potential repair. If that is the case you arent going to get anywhere with Visions. I would use this story as simply another definitive reason to never purchase extended warranty any any store.

If she did pay the $824 then contact visions HO via email and if you dont get a satisfactory response, then go to a local consumer reports reporter. Never communicate with companies over the phone, always via Email

Before doing so I personally would check on the "liquid indicator strip" with another repair department to see if it actually exists. The problem with those strips are even a small amount of liquid spilled months before the issue could have caused that strip to show damage. Also there is no guarantee that Visions doesnt use that strip as a scam to get out of warranty claims.

No, she didn't pay the $824 dollars. The issue isn't so much with the drivers (I have found bunch of issues with Intel drivers and Dells/Lenovo's/Etc), the point is they denied her warranty after they took it apart, said it was rusted and had water damage "it triggered the water dye indicator" and refused service. When I got it from her I took it apart (it was missing screws from Visions not putting it back together) and it had no noticeable water damage and no rust. The machine was spotless inside. This is where I take exception from Visions flat out lying to her.

I also called Lenovo support and asked where the water dye indicator was on this model as I couldnt find it (as Visions said was colored) and this model doesnt even have one. Once again, another Visions lie).

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by cKy

No, she didn't pay the $824 dollars. The issue isn't so much with the drivers (I have found bunch of issues with Intel drivers and Dells/Lenovo's/Etc), the point is they denied her warranty after they took it apart, said it was rusted and had water damage "it triggered the water dye indicator" and refused service. When I got it from her I took it apart (it was missing screws from Visions not putting it back together) and it had no noticeable water damage and no rust. The machine was spotless inside. This is where I take exception from Visions flat out lying to her.

I also called Lenovo support and asked where the water dye indicator was on this model as I couldnt find it (as Visions said was colored) and this model doesnt even have one. Once again, another Visions lie).

Did you get this information from Visions in writing? Did they put these notes on any repair ticket?

Because if you do that, then you can take it to the corporate level.

Going into a store and yelling and screaming does very little good, because they just really don't care.

However go above them and become a pain in the butt and things change.

[cKy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Did you get this information from Visions in writing? Did they put these notes on any repair ticket?

Because if you do that, then you can take it to the corporate level.

Going into a store and yelling and screaming does very little good, because they just really don't care.

However go above them and become a pain in the butt and things change.

We live in Victoria, so we simply can't march into Corporate. I haven't gone into the store with her but she is keeping notes on everything. To my knowledge the only thing that is officially written down is the emails. Great point on getting the repair notes - I assume visions would have an ERP/Ticketing system.

It is also the going above them that is an issue. She has called the main customer support line and gotten Tyler every time. I assume he's the only one answering the phones. He has also disguised his voice and renamed himself to Jim.

I got the name\email of the GM of the Victoria store, so hopefully he can be a little easier to deal with. I'm letting her deal with all the correspondence (it's her problem), but I'm just helping with the technical details as she wouldnt know those things...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by cKy

We live in Victoria, so we simply can't march into Corporate. I haven't gone into the store with her but she is keeping notes on everything. To my knowledge the only thing that is officially written down is the emails. Great point on getting the repair notes - I assume visions would have an ERP/Ticketing system.

Fair enough, however if you don't get satisfaction from the GM or customer service, and you probably won't. Be prepared to start making a nuisance of yourself at an executive level. However, don't be obnoxious on the phone.

Written notes won't do much, emails are tangible, and you have a right to whatever the technician has recorded in their ticket system, and they have to record in their ticket system for legal reasons.

Originally Posted by cKy

It is also the going above them that is an issue. She has called the main customer support line and gotten Tyler every time. I assume he's the only one answering the phones. He has also disguised his voice and renamed himself to Jim.

The customer service line is worthless, its not there to resolve disputes, or even to really make customers happy, its designed as a shield to protect stores and executives from people unhappy with their products. They'll resolve the easy situations and pretty much dismiss anything that's difficult and hide behind policy. Make sure that you completely understand what's covered in the extended warranty by the way. Right now as soon as they say that the work is outside of the warranty with the deadly death star laser reasoning of things like software or damage caused by user, you're pretty much boned unless you can prove otherwise, which means you need the ticket documentation. If you can prove the tech is misleading you, you have a stronger case.

Originally Posted by cKy

I got the name\email of the GM of the Victoria store, so hopefully he can be a little easier to deal with. I'm letting her deal with all the correspondence (it's her problem), but I'm just helping with the technical details as she wouldnt know those things...

The GM might just refer you back to the customer support line. Modern Day chain GM's have about as much power as a sales rep with a higher level access into their system for reporting purposes.

The important thing, don't waste a lot of time with him, bring up your points, if he refers you to service or a 1-800 number, then ask for the name of his regional manager. Either that will spring him into action, or allow him to wash his hands of you and make you someone elses problem.

[cKy]

Some great advice from you Cap, thank you. I'm just going to point my daycare lady to this thread and let her read it

[CaptainCrunch]

If there are more questions let me know.

[Nage Waza]

If their claim about the water indicator is in writing and she can prove they are lying, I would go to small claims court. Sue them for what was paid for the warranty that they lied to get out of.

They probably will settle so that they don't have to waste time.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

If their claim about the water indicator is in writing and she can prove they are lying, I would go to small claims court. Sue them for what was paid for the warranty that they lied to get out of.

They probably will settle so that they don't have to waste time.

you actually can take a different step, that I've seen, if they've lied about their service of a product in writing, you go to the manufacturer and they will intervene on your behalf.

[DoubleF]

Most electronics extended warranties not provided by the manufacturer are junk IMO. Things like PSPs or in store warranty often suck. The only two places that seem not to give you the run around for these things is Costco, London Drugs and Staples. Applecare is also good, but I consider that manufacturer warranty. Everywhere else, it's not worth the hassle IMO. I think I recall chatting with Bestbuy and Futureshop employees back in the day, that they said if you bring in a laptop for any reason, it supposedly uses up your PSP/extended warranty. So if you have two issues, you're SOL on the second one. They suggested that if it's a small issue, fix it yourself so you don't use up the store warranty. I don't know how much of this was true or boldly lie to make the store warranty seem worth it (since they get commissions on tacking those things on IIRC).

Consider also checking to see if your credit card used to purchase the laptop (if one was used) has a warranty extension thing. I found out the other day my VISA can essentially add a year to the basic warranty, not that I've ever needed it.

(EDIT: Never mind, you have to call in before any work begins on the item).

If you know the exact issue, then bring that info with you when you go to Visions and get them to: 1. Prove this isn't the issue. 2. Document the actual issue that violates the extended warranty as to why they cannot honor the warranty (ie: water damage whatever). Going forward, suggest extended warranty not be purchased unless it is known honoring the warranty won't be a big issue.

Consider also involving intel in the process if you hit a road block. Say it's this intel you've found and the store you bought it from refuses to honor warranty. (I think many extended warranties don't cover defect.) See if you can squeeze something out of intel or get intel to help out?

[cKy]

Great advice in here folks, really appreciate it. Keep them coming. I'll let you know what the final results are when it happens.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Most electronics extended warranties not provided by the manufacturer are junk IMO. Things like PSPs or in store warranty often suck. The only two places that seem not to give you the run around for these things is Costco, London Drugs and Staples. Applecare is also good, but I consider that manufacturer warranty. Everywhere else, it's not worth the hassle IMO. I think I recall chatting with Bestbuy and Futureshop employees back in the day, that they said if you bring in a laptop for any reason, it supposedly uses up your PSP/extended warranty. So if you have two issues, you're SOL on the second one. They suggested that if it's a small issue, fix it yourself so you don't use up the store warranty. I don't know how much of this was true or boldly lie to make the store warranty seem worth it (since they get commissions on tacking those things on IIRC).

It could have changed, but back in my day, early 90's. Career wise you went nowhere if you didn't sell warranty. You couldn't get into training programs unless at least 8% of your sales had grease (warranty). It was also really tough to make good money.

For example, if I sold a Super P1 $2000.00 computer which had 20% margin. I would make $40.00 in commissions (2000.00x20% = $400.00 then 10% commission. Now lets say that I sold the $500.00 3 year CSP. It basically had 0 costs, and I made I think about 20% of that, so I would make $100.00 on warranty and $40.00 on the hardware. Plus, I've sold 25% CSP basically for that day.

The difference between a good day and a really good day was the warranty that you sold.

Personally, I hated selling it, but sold it anyways, because I wanted to be promoted, wanted to make more money, plus I liked beating all of the other people that I worked with.

I remember, when I went to Winnipeg to help them out, and they wanted me because I usually ran 20% warranty. So I got off the plane and went to the store, and being Future Shop, the manager put a CSP challenge out for the day.

So I was tired, and hung over, so I approached a customer who was looking at a $2000.00 laser printer, and I convinced him to buy the $1000.00 I think 5 year warranty, so I basically had a 33% warranty. I had also in the span of 10 minutes made $300.00 on the printer because the profit margin was ludicris, and there was a $200.00 spiff on the printer, and I made $200.00 on the warranty. So because I wanted to win, I spent the rest of the day hanging out in the paper section selling $2.00 packages of paper.

There was no limit in the amount of usage, however, when we did the replacement, they had to get the warranty on the new replacement product, but that was easy because it usually cost them nothing on replacement.

So why did I hate selling warranty. Because while there was some value at the time on big screen TV's which were hugely expensive and failed constantly, and computers before they became disposabile.

But we had to really work the client over, if we didn't sell it we had to get the manager to come over and approve the non sale of warranty and he would second approach the client.

You're career path would also end if you couldn't climb past that 8% warrant. You could sell a ton of stuff, but you would always be on the floor if you didn't sell the grease.

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Consider also checking to see if your credit card used to purchase the laptop (if one was used) has a warranty extension thing. I found out the other day my VISA can essentially add a year to the basic warranty, not that I've ever needed it.

Yeah, its an extension on the manufactures warranty which covers things like defects in manufacture. Usually if your product survives the first 30 days, you will never use the manufactures warranty. In the extended part of a manufactures warranty, 90% of the time it won't be covered because it won't be a defect.

Originally Posted by DoubleF

(EDIT: Never mind, you have to call in before any work begins on the item).

If you know the exact issue, then bring that info with you when you go to Visions and get them to: 1. Prove this isn't the issue. 2. Document the actual issue that violates the extended warranty as to why they cannot honor the warranty (ie: water damage whatever). Going forward, suggest extended warranty not be purchased unless it is known honoring the warranty won't be a big issue.

Consider also involving intel in the process if you hit a road block. Say it's this intel you've found and the store you bought it from refuses to honor warranty. (I think many extended warranties don't cover defect.) See if you can squeeze something out of intel or get intel to help out?

Extended warranties do and don't exceed the manufacturers warranty.

Usually with a manufacturers warranty there is no exchange, its fix only, and with a lot of technology stuff, its a send in and wait two weeks. With an extended warranty they usually have a replacement program if it can't be fixed in a reasonable period of time.

The manufacturer's warranty will cover you for defect, bad manufacturing/ bad product. An extended warranty will cover whatever they want it to cover. When you buy an extended warranty its crucial that you see what is and isn't covered in writing or you open your self to a good swift screwing.