Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Hanifin was arguably the best Flames D in the whole series. He's a stud, and we're incredibly fortunate Treliving was able to upgrade Hamilton into Hanifin

Wut?

I'm a huge Hanifin fan and am glad we have him but he was putrid. Him and Hamonic were by far our worst pair in the series.

CF%: 39.59%
FF%: 39.31%
SF%: 38.32%
SCF% 35.23%
HDCF% 31.25%
xGF%: 31.99%

Those are God AWFUL numbers.

Actually, that would be an understatement.

Hanifin (and Hamonic) was an absolute trainwreck every time he stepped foot on the ice

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I don't think there is anything to cure - what is needed is growth - still a young inexperienced team. It's really hard to change what your are doing when it was pretty successful but these guys learned a valuable lesson. My expectations of this team is that it's a multi year process. Tweaks here and there but let this team mature more.

For most of the last 4 games this team spent so much time chasing in the defensive zone it resulted in zero transition game. When pucks were moved out of the defensive zone they had to change the lines or there was little attack due to exhaustion

Sounds like coaching is a question

[SuperMatt18]

I like Monahan but I think he may be the one from the young core that gets moved.

Last year they mentioned a reason the looked at moving Ferland is they felt he didn’t play well down the stretch and that’s starting to be Monahans M.O. as well.

He’s a great finisher but he’s career arc is getting a little too Dion Phaneuf like for my liking. Hasn’t really improved defensively, hasn’t improved his skating, and doesn’t have a physical edge to his game. Feel like he’s stagnated at this point and that they may look at improving on him even if they need to add.

I think Frolik and Brodie get moved for sure too. Opens up some cap space and they are going into the last year of their contract, plus think they want spots for Dube, Mangiapane, Valimaki, and Kylington.

Jankowski is the other guy I could see them including in a package. Not nearly good enough as a 3rd line center with Monahan and Backs as 1 & 2. With Leafs probably shopping Kadri and needing cap space I could honestly see something around Janko and Kadri happening in the offseason. A gritty, speedier centre for the Flames and a cheap option for the Leafs. Flames would have to add of course.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sounds like coaching is a question

I am not going to argue that - as a coach there is no way you change much that won you a top seed in the western conference. This trend downward started after the allstar break and not a whole lot changed - the coaches just thought they would play their way out of it and that just didn't happen. On the other hand you have the underdogs Avs - much easier to come up with a game plan to compete with the favorite. Not a lot of expectation - Peters and the staff are damn if they do and damn if they don't. Top player weren't producing - compete wasn't there - the coaches game plan means nothing

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Wut?

I'm a huge Hanifin fan and am glad we have him but he was putrid. Him and Hamonic were by far our worst pair in the series.

CF%: 39.59%
FF%: 39.31%
SF%: 38.32%
SCF% 35.23%
HDCF% 31.25%
xGF%: 31.99%

Those are God AWFUL numbers.

Actually, that would be an understatement.

Hanifin (and Hamonic) was an absolute trainwreck every time he stepped foot on the ice

I went to all three games, the numbers do not surprise me. I noticed Hanifin being extremely nervous at the start of game 1 and he never really got it under control in the series. Anderson did not have a good game today but him and Vallimaki were good third pair over the course of the series.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Wut?

I'm a huge Hanifin fan and am glad we have him but he was putrid. Him and Hamonic were by far our worst pair in the series.

CF%: 39.59%
FF%: 39.31%
SF%: 38.32%
SCF% 35.23%
HDCF% 31.25%
xGF%: 31.99%

Those are God AWFUL numbers.

Actually, that would be an understatement.

Hanifin (and Hamonic) was an absolute trainwreck every time he stepped foot on the ice

Did anyone put up good underlying numbers in this series?

The coaching staff didn't appear to have any answers for what the Avs were doing.

All year long, the least problematic pairing has been Hamonic/Hanifin. I expect that to continue next year, and beyond when Hamonic signs his inevitable extension.

[liamenator]

Take a page from Masai Ujiri. This team is close, but it's not going to win as it is. Prepare to trade Monahan or Gaudreau, who both have term, for a clear upgrade that's expiring or close. Find a gamer. If one isn't available, fine -- don't give up excellent assets just to do something. But if the right opportunity is there, don't hesitate. Above all, don't be lulled into thinking this group just needs one more kick at the can.

[vilzeh]

I've been saying it for years, Monahan is not going to cut it, but everyone just piled on me. I have said he is soft, he doesn't grind at all, and he gets those "garbage" goals which you do get in the regular season when playing with an elite player In Gaudreau.

Lähetetty minun WAS-LX1 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[Vinny01]

I think the players that get shipped are Brodie, Frolik, Jankowski, Neal (lol), Stone (lol), and not much else outside of picks.

Monahan has a brutal end to the season but 34 goals 82pts for less than $6.5M is a tough contract to want to move because it is so valuable. Unless news comes out otherwise I don’t see the Flames making any shocking moves this summer (Basically trading someone in their fab 5)

[mac_82]

Gaudreau - you continue to build around until 20-21. If he isn't re-signed by Dec 2021, you trade him before he walks for nothing

#1C - try to sign a UFA (and trade Monahan for picks) or use Monahan in a package to bring in an upgrade. A true #1C.

Brodie - package him out for picks. I'm sure he will still bring in a decent return and we can stock up.

Goaltending - we need a #1 who has 5-8 years ahead of him. Maybe Jake Allen is available. Maybe Saros, Kuemper or Lehner. This is the biggest area of concern, and re-signing Smith is a 1-year bandaid.

Jankowski - he is a super soft birthday party. Move him for what ever you can get.

Frolik - same as above. Ship him out.

James Neal - as bad as he was, this is the lowest his value will ever be. I am willing to see what Neal brings in year 2 of his contract - if he can get his shooting percentage up from 5% back into the 10-15% range, he will pot 20 again. If not, then you cut bait.

Tkachuk - pretty sure he lost millions on his new contract with his play. But this was a good learning experience for him.

D Core - this is peak Gio. In 3 years he will be on the second or third pairing and then riding off into the sunset. Exciting to think about where Hanifin, Valimaki, Andersson and Kylington will end up. But it would be great to add a big body in the Regehr/Engelland style to toughen up the backend.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Wut?

I'm a huge Hanifin fan and am glad we have him but he was putrid. Him and Hamonic were by far our worst pair in the series.

CF%: 39.59%
FF%: 39.31%
SF%: 38.32%
SCF% 35.23%
HDCF% 31.25%
xGF%: 31.99%

Those are God AWFUL numbers.

Actually, that would be an understatement.

Hanifin (and Hamonic) was an absolute trainwreck every time he stepped foot on the ice

Team defense was horrendous all series so to me it’s tough to take the small sample size and point the finger at any one player.

Especially because I don’t think Hamonic helped at all. Just horrible gap control and he couldn’t make a pass to save his life. Honestly Hamonic was throwing pucks away and had countless giveaways this series.

[Manhattanboy]

What to do with this roster is a daunting question.

Hard to believe in the span of a week we went from our second best record in franchise history and the number one seed in the WC (by far) to shredding the long term plan for the franchise.

This really is a disaster of epic proportions.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Hanifin was arguably the best Flames D in the whole series. He's a stud, and we're incredibly fortunate Treliving was able to upgrade Hamilton into Hanifin.

Yeah we were definitely not watching the same series. Hanifin and Hamonic spent the whole series backing in like two Kris Russells. Their defensive play was probably the worst on the team, and their offensive play was non-existent. I find it tough to decide who was worse because they both did some terrible things throughout the series but there is almost zero doubt the Flames were profoundly better when any of Giordano, Brodie, Valimaki, or Andersson were on the ice. While the other pairs had some bad gaps here and there earlier in the series, Hanifin in particular was the worst offender as he never even made an effort to tighten up his game. The vast majority of Smith's ten bell saves came on the Hanifin-Hamonic pair.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I doubt Duchene leaves Ohio after this run. They are probably going to lose Panariin so they’ll be all in on Duchene.

Duchene will be a top end UFA this year. No way he would choose Calgary over other teams/cities anyways, even if Columbus doesnt go all in for him. The only way we get a high end elite center is getting lucky in the draft and having a player exceed expectations or we package up a few players and trade for one.

[dammage79]

The 2nd pairing wasn't overly great but I'm not counting out Hanifin as a problem going forward. 22 and zero playoff games before this. You know hes younger than Andersson right? He'll improve along with the rest of this young core.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Yeah we were definitely not watching the same series. Hanifin and Hamonic spent the whole series backing in like two Kris Russells. Their defensive play was probably the worst on the team, and their offensive play was non-existent. I find it tough to decide who was worse because they both did some terrible things throughout the series but there is almost zero doubt the Flames were profoundly better when any of Giordano, Brodie, Valimaki, or Andersson were on the ice. While the other pairs had some bad gaps here and there earlier in the series, Hanifin in particular was the worst offender as he never even made an effort to tighten up his game. The vast majority of Smith's ten bell saves came on the Hanifin-Hamonic pair.

Hanifin had a rough series but he's still one of the better young D in the league. I'm a bit more worried with Hamonic as we paid a hefty price to bring him in for the playoffs and we've already burned through two years of nothing. He's UFA after next year so I worry we'll throw a huge deal his way just so we don't lose him for nothing...

Our young D is where we're sitting pretty. Rasmus, Hanifin, Kylington, Valimaki...imagine if we didn't trade for Hamonic and could also throw Dobson into the mix?!

[jmerkel3d]

Everybody asking for more "playoff experience" is crazy. That is EXACTLY what we signed Neal and brouwer for. And both moves, at the time, were mostly lauded for bringing in playoff experience to the young group.

I believe Johnny will figure it out eventually. I've been very skeptical of his ability to pick it up in the playoffs but I still gotta believe a guy like that who delivers like he did in the regular season and is as competitive as he is will be motivated to put the work in and maybe work on his strength in the off-season. He showed a willingness to actually much it up a bit this series which I've NEVER seen from him. Him getting in a scrum tonight was something I've never seen from him before.

As Johnny goes, so does this team. Monahan I'm concerned about though. He seems like the kind of guy that is just happy to be here in the NHL. Interestingly enough we all saw him as a "character guy" with "leadership skills" (hence the A), but now we just see him as a slot presence finisher and nothing more.

Another year full of development of our young core (which is still one of the estimate in the league I'd argue) and this very valuable playoff experience, and I think we'll only get better.

No need to blow it up. I thought lindboln was pretty good this series and it was nice to see that physical side if him (I ran into his brother at the game and I KNEW he was his brother because he looked and talked exactly the same). But man, Neal..... Looking worse than lucic now.

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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by liamenator

Take a page from Masai Ujiri. This team is close, but it's not going to win as it is. Prepare to trade Monahan or Gaudreau, who both have term, for a clear upgrade that's expiring or close. Find a gamer. If one isn't available, fine -- don't give up excellent assets just to do something. But if the right opportunity is there, don't hesitate. Above all, don't be lulled into thinking this group just needs one more kick at the can.

Lets wait and see if the Raps actually get any further this season...they basically have zero chance of winning a championship and the guy they traded for is gone after this season

[jmerkel3d]

Pumped to see Vali's ceiling though! He looked great all year long, playoffs included. Great signs.

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[dammage79]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lets wait and see if the Raps actually get any further this season...they basically have zero chance of winning a championship and the guy they traded for is gone after this season

Even getting to the finals for the raps would be a massive win.