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Old 08-13-2019, 07:02 AM   #1
Iggy City
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I think it's time for a thread on this, it's getting pretty intense with China's words and actions now:

China media says Hong Kong protesters are ‘asking for self-destruction’ as military assembles nearby
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/13/hong...es-nearby.html

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Chinese propaganda outlets warned on Tuesday that protesters in#Hong Kong#are “asking for self-destruction,” as they released a video showing military vehicles amassing near the border of the city.
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Hong Kong’s airport reopened Tuesday early morning after airport authorities canceled all flights on Monday, blaming demonstrators’ disruption to regular operations. Another sit-in is expected to take place at the airport, a major global hub, on Tuesday.
Scary to think what happens next if it keeps escalating further...
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:27 AM   #2
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Yeah there's been some harsh language from Beijing on this and that definitely makes it worrisome.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:29 AM   #3
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Could someone post a quick recap of what's going on? I feel stupid for being so ignorant on this, but the article I've clicked on lately don't really give much history - just current news. TIA
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:33 AM   #4
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I hate to say it, but this sorta felt like an inevitability ever since control of HK reverted to China. Hopefully, the reaction isn't too extreme by the Chinese.

If there was a competent leader in the White House I would have more confidence that China could be influenced to moderate their approach but as it is, I fear the worst.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:04 AM   #5
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China sent their military in yesterday. They've deemed the protests at the airport as 'terrorist acts'.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1160947525442056193
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:04 AM   #6
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Does Hong Kong really have an economy if the rich Mainlanders are unable to funnel their wealth to it? Which would essentially be what happens if the pro-democracy people get what they want?
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by BsFaninCGY View Post
Could someone post a quick recap of what's going on? I feel stupid for being so ignorant on this, but the article I've clicked on lately don't really give much history - just current news. TIA
I guess Coles notes, started with a guy murdering his gf in Taiwan, and then fleeing back to Hong Kong. Hong Kong execs then used it as an excuse to introduce an extradition bill. People freaked out thinking that means people can get extradited to China for political reasons. Protesting / rioting ensued. Bill was suspended, but protesting / rioting continued to now include getting Hong Kong top exec to step down as well as investigation into police brutality.

Now we're at a standstill where China's not backing down and giving into any more demands. Hong Kong protesters continue to protest, riot police continue to police, and violence erupts because you have anger on both sides. Triads supposedly involved.

All in all, it's just one big mess in Hong Kong. Some say the underlying anger from the younger protesters is there's pretty much no hope for the Asian dream in HK as owning a home is next to impossible right now with the current housing prices. The rich developers and corrupt government officials get richer, the average joe gets squeezed out of the market. Many are blaming the Hong Kong government of being incompetent and catering to Beijing and ignoring it's citizens. You have anger boiling over, and young people with no hope for the future.

The problem with these protests are, I'm not sure what the end goal is for the protester side. They'd be naive to think China's going to bend down. I fear this is going to escalate into even more violence and chaos before anything gets solved.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:12 AM   #8
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Not only that but China was taking full control in 2047 (I think?), and are looking for any excuse to move that up.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:21 AM   #9
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I dunno, I get the viewpoints from both sides. On the one side, some of the Hong Kong people are freaking out about China control. But on the other side, it's pretty much inevitable. Plus, Hong Kong has always had a huge reliance on business with China. Most of the water and electricity is also supplied by the mainland.

The problem the protesters have is, it's pretty directionless, and they don't have any leaders stepping forth to represent them, as no one is willing to do it for (rightfully so) fear of being jailed.

And then you have the conspiracy theories of the west (US and Britain) influencing it in the background as part of their tactics against China in their ongoing tradewar with them. I guess I wouldn't put it past the CIA, as that's what they do. But I'm not sure if I buy it 100% either.

I do feel bad for the HK police though. They're caught in the middle, and just getting hammered publicly lately. I also find the US criticizing HK police of police brutality amusing. If there were this big scale of violence in the US at a protest, I'm pretty sure people would have been shot already, and there would have been multiple deaths. The fact that this big of a scale protest has not resulted in any in HK so far is actually quite amazing.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:26 AM   #10
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Both sides? One side is effectively a free society. The other one blocks internet sites and kills.politic.opponents.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:28 AM   #11
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Well my fear is that we've seen this before. It's unfortunately not a new tactic from dictatorships where the protests gain momentum and it might appear as though they are going to make some inroads. Then they call in the tanks and quell a generation of activists (to put it mildly). I was among the naive watching the Tiananmen Square protests thinking that "even the army is standing by watching, so this could be a huge change!" My political science professor, who really was a brilliant guy, explained that there was never a chance and that this is an old playbook.

I'm really sad for the people in Hong Kong. I hope it doesn't play out that way, and it's a situation where I would be so glad to be proven wrong!
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:32 AM   #12
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Both sides? One side is effectively a free society. The other one blocks internet sites and kills.politic.opponents.
Yes, both sides. Contrary to popular belief, not every Chinese citizen in China is miserable. The way western media portrays China, you'd think living conditions there were like North Korea. At the end of the day, you're not going to change how China governs, it's a communist country. That's how they govern. And for the most part, they've taken a pretty hands off approach to Hong Kong, just like how they've done with Macau, with the expectation of full integration into China by 2047. It's a deadend road if protesters are expecting some sort of Hong Kong independence from China. You're just going to rock the 1 party 2 system boat, and China's just going to take a harder stance if this continues.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:37 AM   #13
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Well my fear is that we've seen this before. It's unfortunately not a new tactic from dictatorships where the protests gain momentum and it might appear as though they are going to make some inroads. Then they call in the tanks and quell a generation of activists (to put it mildly). I was among the naive watching the Tiananmen Square protests thinking that "even the army is standing by watching, so this could be a huge change!" My political science professor, who really was a brilliant guy, explained that there was never a chance and that this is an old playbook.

I'm really sad for the people in Hong Kong. I hope it doesn't play out that way, and it's a situation where I would be so glad to be proven wrong!
Not sure it really matters though unless it happens in China. No one is stepping in and attempting to allow Hong Kong to be independent when it reverts totally back to China in 27 years (maybe sooner).

Not only that but from what I read its already a much different place than it was pre-1997. The economy has shifted significantly to the mainland.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:44 AM   #14
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The world is in a bad place right now.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:56 AM   #15
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Its happening now. The Police retreated back to their buses. Then the Riot police have stormed the airport.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:23 AM   #16
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I dunno, I get the viewpoints from both sides. On the one side, some of the Hong Kong people are freaking out about China control. But on the other side, it's pretty much inevitable. Plus, Hong Kong has always had a huge reliance on business with China. Most of the water and electricity is also supplied by the mainland.

The problem the protesters have is, it's pretty directionless, and they don't have any leaders stepping forth to represent them, as no one is willing to do it for (rightfully so) fear of being jailed.

And then you have the conspiracy theories of the west (US and Britain) influencing it in the background as part of their tactics against China in their ongoing tradewar with them. I guess I wouldn't put it past the CIA, as that's what they do. But I'm not sure if I buy it 100% either.

I do feel bad for the HK police though. They're caught in the middle, and just getting hammered publicly lately. I also find the US criticizing HK police of police brutality amusing. If there were this big scale of violence in the US at a protest, I'm pretty sure people would have been shot already, and there would have been multiple deaths. The fact that this big of a scale protest has not resulted in any in HK so far is actually quite amazing.

The global housing crisis world wide, and the Chinese government is very aware of it. The Chinese government has already stepped in somewhat with capital controls. However, the opportunity remains for them to use the housing crisis as a mask to take down political enemies and seize property, in the same way that the Russians took down all the oil barons.

Simultaneously, if the protesters goal is to crash the markets, then making Hong Kong a not so safe place is a great way to do that. The market already looks skittish and will divest from anywhere that looks like trouble.

Many of the people who actually live in China seem to have the worst of both worlds. Poor freedoms and a corrupt socialist state, where only the very elite can take advantage while everyone else lives in poverty.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:25 AM   #17
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Many of the people who actually live in China seem to have the worst of both worlds. Poor freedoms and a corrupt socialist state, where only the very elite can take advantage while everyone else lives in poverty.
What options do those who live in such environments have other than to protest?

In that respect, what do they have to lose? If your future is bleak, what are the real downsides to dying in connection with the protesting and, if need be, taking a few government representatives down with you?
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:46 AM   #18
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Hong Kong's kind of stuck in a hard place. On the one hand, a majority of their economy is tied directly to China, from businesses to even their entertainment industry. So then you have people needing to learn Mandarin and businesses catering to Chinese tourists and China in general to make money. Meanwhile, a big portion of Hong Kong people feel their autonomy being threatened, and that the tables are turning where they're not the richer of the two anymore, so they can no longer pressure China with their economic clout. Shenzen has basically left them in the dust over the past few years.

The problem gets exacerbated by an incompetent government who's not only been able to not control house prices, and have allowed an influx of mainland money to drive up real estate prices higher, but now basically bootlick to gain Beijing's favour. Developers and government officials are making money hand over fist, while the average person now loses both economically and culturally.
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:52 PM   #19
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What options do those who live in such environments have other than to protest?

In that respect, what do they have to lose? If your future is bleak, what are the real downsides to dying in connection with the protesting and, if need be, taking a few government representatives down with you?
I don't disagree. It's one thing to live a meager life striving for a socialist dream. It's quite another to do the same for the benefit of a few ultra elite. This half-way socialist/capitalist route China has taken is a mess.
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:17 PM   #20
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And then you have the conspiracy theories of the west (US and Britain) influencing it in the background as part of their tactics against China in their ongoing tradewar with them. I guess I wouldn't put it past the CIA, as that's what they do. But I'm not sure if I buy it 100% either.
Kinda hard to rationalize it as a conspiracy theory when you literally have photos of American diplomats (ie. CIA. Seriously just google her history of where she’s worked and during what periods of time in those countries) meeting with protest organizers. Yes, I know RT is Russian State media, but western news reports on this meeting being revealed have chosen not to publish this photo. Gee I wonder why.

https://www.rt.com/news/466078-hong-...s-joshua-wong/


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