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Old 08-13-2019, 08:28 AM   #41
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and they're still massively used by the public
Seems like the opposite is true, actually.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:31 AM   #42
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Would be a real shame to lose these two facilities. So many memories of the Beltline pool growing up and they're still massively used by the public. The city hasn't built a rec center in a while, instead going with the massive YMCA complexes but these smaller more local recreation centers are a massive resource for those that use them.

Hoping another solution can be found.

Memories don't pay the bills. My suspicion is they are losing money / not making money. So why have them?
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:32 AM   #43
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I did have a chuckle at Carra saying that the Inglewood Pool is heavily subsidized. Seems like a poor rationale when just a week or two ago we decided to subsidize a private business.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:33 AM   #44
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Memories don't pay the bills. My suspicion is they are losing money / not making money. So why have them?
Which city services make money? That's hardly the test for public services.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:41 AM   #45
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Seems like the opposite is true, actually.
They had already been looking at closing for a number of years now with so few people using it and the costs.

From the article:

Coun. Gian-Carlo Carra said when the city had a conversation with the community several years ago about the possibility of closing the Inglewood pool, “there was a lot of love expressed for the pool.”

So we agreed that we would explore trying to find ways to bring the utilization up and bring the per-user subsidy in line with what we’re seeing throughout the rest of the city’s recreation assets,” he said. “And we haven’t been able to get there"

Carra said while the pool is a “beloved asset,” it’s also under-utilized and highly subsidized by the city.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:43 AM   #46
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Which city services make money? That's hardly the test for public services.
In terms of Parks and Recreation, Shaganappi Point Gold Course was turning a profit in recent years.

Not all of them do. And they should probably be closed down if they can't find a better model. The City has a plan to try and get the rest of the courses breaking even within three years. After that, who knows. But they shouldn't continue to operate them if they can't break even at least.

Just like Inglewood and Beltline pools. Gian-Carlo Carra said the Inglewood pool specifically was underutilized - in that very article.

As I said, memories don't pay the bills.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:45 AM   #47
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Seems like the opposite is true, actually.
Fair comment perhaps but under utilized doesn't mean slow. Would love to see the numbers and where we're actually at. It's a vague comment, the facilities aren't being closed because the life guards have nothing to do but read.

The Beltline location was deemed busy enough to warrant somewhat major cosmetic renovations a year ago.

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Memories don't pay the bills. My suspicion is they are losing money / not making money. So why have them?
That's an interesting take. Someone bulldoze that new library and the rest in the system.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:47 AM   #48
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Note to self, next time don't attach personal memories to posts, some will focus only on that.

This isn't about my personal memories, it's about two communities and the surrounding ones potentially losing valuable assets. Enough with the memories don't pay the bills bullcrap.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:48 AM   #49
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In terms of Parks and Recreation, Shaganappi Point Gold Course was turning a profit in recent years.

Not all of them do. And they should probably be closed down if they can't find a better model. The City has a plan to try and get the rest of the courses breaking even within three years. After that, who knows. But they shouldn't continue to operate them if they can't break even at least.

Just like Inglewood and Beltline pools. Gian-Carlo Carra said the Inglewood pool specifically was underutilized - in that very article.

As I said, memories don't pay the bills.

I sure hope they don't get rid of Confederation Park golf course. Having that as an XC ski area in the winter is a gem, and a health benefit for the city.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:49 AM   #50
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That's an interesting take. Someone bulldoze that new library and the rest in the system.
You might be able to thank the UCP for that one too!

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/province-...hold-1.4540011
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:59 AM   #51
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I sure hope they don't get rid of Confederation Park golf course. Having that as an XC ski area in the winter is a gem, and a health benefit for the city.
I agree, I hope they find a way to make it generate enough to continue operating. That is probably the best nine-hole public course in the City. The winter activities there too are great.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:00 AM   #52
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In terms of Parks and Recreation, Shaganappi Point Gold Course was turning a profit in recent years.

Not all of them do. And they should probably be closed down if they can't find a better model. The City has a plan to try and get the rest of the courses breaking even within three years. After that, who knows. But they shouldn't continue to operate them if they can't break even at least.

Just like Inglewood and Beltline pools. Gian-Carlo Carra said the Inglewood pool specifically was underutilized - in that very article.

As I said, memories don't pay the bills.
I think that utilization is a valid way of deciding whether to keep these things going. But you bringing up that it doesn't make money is what I'm talking about. It's just that deciding whether we should have these things based on whether or not they make money is just dumb. Almost nothing the city does makes money...it's inherent.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:06 AM   #53
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I think that utilization is a valid way of deciding whether to keep these things going. But you bringing up that it doesn't make money is what I'm talking about. It's just that deciding whether we should have these things based on whether or not they make money is just dumb. Almost nothing the city does makes money...it's inherent.
It's underutilized, therefore a bad investment and not worth continuing to keep around.

If a golf course was highly utilized but losing money, do you not think a prudent leadership team at the City should review if it's still a good investment for Calgarians? The goal is generate user fee revenue (and likely retail sales) to assist in covering operating costs. Anything after that is gravy. If it' not, then more tax dollars have to go towards subsidization. At what threshold does that stop?

A pool that is underutilized is not making enough in user fees to keep open. It is a money pit. Can't run a pool on good vibes and "Calgarians should swim" karma.

If making money was the point of the City of Calgary, we'd probably have a very different looking city.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:10 AM   #54
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It's underutilized, therefore a bad investment and not worth continuing to keep around.

If a golf course was highly utilized but losing money, do you not think a prudent leadership team at the City should review if it's still a good investment for Calgarians? The goal is generate user fee revenue (and likely retail sales) to assist in covering operating costs. Anything after that is gravy. If it' not, then more tax dollars have to go towards subsidization. At what threshold does that stop?

A pool that is underutilized is not making enough in user fees to keep open. It is a money pit. Can't run a pool on good vibes and "Calgarians should swim" karma.

If making money was the point of the City of Calgary, we'd probably have a very different looking city.
Lol, you're the guy who brought up making money though. That was your criteria, not mine.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:16 AM   #55
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Lol, you're the guy who brought up making money though. That was your criteria, not mine.
"Memories don't pay the bills. My suspicion is they are losing money / not making money. So why have them?"

When did I say the goal of City services was to make money? When has anyone here ever said that?

Are public facilities not allowed to be in the black? Only the red?

I am not sure what more has to be said about keeping underperforming facilities open. A pool is under-utilized, and one particular poster said he hopes they keep it open because of good memories there, which is a bad reason to keep something open if it's not doing well.

If they are not making enough in user fees, why bother keeping it open? It's not worth the investment.

Christ almighty.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:22 AM   #56
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I am sure there are a few happy folks around here that 115 people are being layed off from their cushy, do-nothing, high-earning pension government positions.
Of course it won't be those positions cut. It will be the front line staff because city council could care less about them. Need to keep those pensions rolling in
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:28 AM   #57
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"Memories don't pay the bills. My suspicion is they are losing money / not making money. So why have them?"

When did I say the goal of City services was to make money? When has anyone here ever said that?

Are public facilities not allowed to be in the black? Only the red?

I am not sure what more has to be said about keeping underperforming facilities open. A pool is under-utilized, and one particular poster said he hopes they keep it open because of good memories there, which is a bad reason to keep something open if it's not doing well.

If they are not making enough in user fees, why bother keeping it open? It's not worth the investment.

Christ almighty.
The truth is I have better things to do than get into a discussion of what you meant when you said "they're not making money, so why have them?" I think it's pretty obvious that means that the bar is they need to be profitable.

Should we cancel garbage collection? There's no way that's making money. In your words "why have it?"

I mean I guess you can try to explain what everyone's missing here with your comments, or you could just admit that you threw out a foolish argument and providing public services shouldn't be based on profitability.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:31 AM   #58
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Pretty much nothing a city does makes money. Roads are a money pit? Why have them? /sarcasm
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:34 AM   #59
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The truth is I have better things to do than get into a discussion of what you meant when you said "they're not making money, so why have them?" I think it's pretty obvious that means that the bar is they need to be profitable.
If he's being genuine, which going by my previous interactions with him I'm leery of, he needs to be clearer when posting because I took the comment the same way you did.. obviously.

(obviously because that's how he meant it and he's now backtracking)
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:37 AM   #60
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I mean I guess you can try to explain what everyone's missing here with your comments, or you could just admit that you threw out a foolish argument and providing public services shouldn't be based on profitability.
Yeah sorry my persnickety friend, but not foolish at all. Inglewood Pool and Beltline Pool are bad investments due to low generation of user fees (through under-utilization). Part of their revenue model is based on generating market-driven sales of goods and services. User fees are part of that model:

An example of that is located in the City of Calgary's 2015-1018 Action Plan:



Tell me again how the sales and user fees don't impact city services?
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